Just how much authority is granted HoA's in Colorado? (Denver: HOA fees, lawyer)

[Xanathos]

A very minor piece of backstory: We recently purchased a (for now) investment property in the southeast portion of the metro area. One of the big complaints we had was that we didn't like the xeriscaping the previous owners had chosen.

Fortunately, we want to install geothermal heat pumps to replace the nat gas heat the house presently has, so we figured 2 birds one stone: We can rip out all the landscaping while we're having the yard dug up to put in the coolant coils. The company we want to go with for this was out there today doing some measurements and calculations so they can get us an estimate. Got an introduction call from some HoA official this evening basically asking why it was there was a service vehicle there without HoA approval. So I explain it to this guy, and he starts in on some line about how I didn't apply before the committee to have any external work done and how I have to request approval for any construction work and pay some fees to the HoA to evaluate, blah blah blah development aesthetics yadda yadda yadda. I'm just like look man, I get that you dudes for some unknown reason can tell me I can't paint the house anything other than the most boring colors the world has ever known (seriously, one of the approved colors is called "Utterly Beige", and another is called "Totally Taupe". It even sounds boring), but pretty sure you're not going to tell me how to heat and air condition the home.

I went and read the CC&R's, and it does say some things about putting additions on the home, what types of shrubberies are allowed (a sure sign someone had too much time on their hands), etc. but nothing about not being able to make improvements to the house without first kissing the ring. This cat went on some rant about how if I do it without getting approval first they're going to levy fines on me and some other such nonsense. Fines are nominal; 3-figure expenditures.

My question is basically this: Just how much leeway does the state of Colorado give HoA boards? I know in some states (like the one I live in now), they're given so much free reign that tyrants can and often do ascend to power and try to wield with an iron fist, but in other states, reason takes over at some point. The question is mostly relevant because I need to know when to schedule the workers to come trench the property. If the state doesn't give the HoA's unlimited teeth, I can just disregard these dudes and waste their time fighting the fines later (my work offers free legal services as an opt-in job perk, so my civil attorneys don't cost anything other than the 10 bucks a pay period we all throw into the pot to pay for the service). If it does, then I'm going to have to plan to have everyone come out to do the work over a 3 day weekend (looking like Memorial Day is next) so that by the time some lawn nazi can run to a courthouse and get a temporary injunction, the work is already done and I don't have to worry about having one of my attorneys stall and delay long enough for it to be finished.

I'm going to have the work done either way; I really don't give a **** about some piddly fines if it comes to that. Playing ball with the HoA and going through their stupid approval process is a non-starter for me; just out of principle, I'm not going to lay myself supine and ask the massa if I can make high-tech improvements to the home just to appease their egos. And I'm certainly not going to give them a bribe to evaluate everything - especially since we don't even live in Colorado, so attending one of their meetings would be a pain in the ass. I ****ing hate HoA's, and have gotten pretty good over the years making sure it costs them 10 times what they collect from me in warchest expenditures.

[davebarnes]

You need a lawyer.
I have used this one with HOA docs.
https://www.yelp.com/biz/andrew-oh-willeke-denver

[LHS79]

Originally Posted by Xanathos

A very minor piece of backstory: We recently purchased a (for now) investment property in the southeast portion of the metro area. One of the big complaints we had was that we didn't like the xeriscaping the previous owners had chosen.

Fortunately, we want to install geothermal heat pumps to replace the nat gas heat the house presently has, so we figured 2 birds one stone: We can rip out all the landscaping while we're having the yard dug up to put in the coolant coils. The company we want to go with for this was out there today doing some measurements and calculations so they can get us an estimate. Got an introduction call from some HoA official this evening basically asking why it was there was a service vehicle there without HoA approval. So I explain it to this guy, and he starts in on some line about how I didn't apply before the committee to have any external work done and how I have to request approval for any construction work and pay some fees to the HoA to evaluate, blah blah blah development aesthetics yadda yadda yadda. I'm just like look man, I get that you dudes for some unknown reason can tell me I can't paint the house anything other than the most boring colors the world has ever known (seriously, one of the approved colors is called "Utterly Beige", and another is called "Totally Taupe". It even sounds boring), but pretty sure you're not going to tell me how to heat and air condition the home.

I went and read the CC&R's, and it does say some things about putting additions on the home, what types of shrubberies are allowed (a sure sign someone had too much time on their hands), etc. but nothing about not being able to make improvements to the house without first kissing the ring. This cat went on some rant about how if I do it without getting approval first they're going to levy fines on me and some other such nonsense. Fines are nominal; 3-figure expenditures.

My question is basically this: Just how much leeway does the state of Colorado give HoA boards? I know in some states (like the one I live in now), they're given so much free reign that tyrants can and often do ascend to power and try to wield with an iron fist, but in other states, reason takes over at some point. The question is mostly relevant because I need to know when to schedule the workers to come trench the property. If the state doesn't give the HoA's unlimited teeth, I can just disregard these dudes and waste their time fighting the fines later (my work offers free legal services as an opt-in job perk, so my civil attorneys don't cost anything other than the 10 bucks a pay period we all throw into the pot to pay for the service). If it does, then I'm going to have to plan to have everyone come out to do the work over a 3 day weekend (looking like Memorial Day is next) so that by the time some lawn nazi can run to a courthouse and get a temporary injunction, the work is already done and I don't have to worry about having one of my attorneys stall and delay long enough for it to be finished.

I'm going to have the work done either way; I really don't give a **** about some piddly fines if it comes to that. Playing ball with the HoA and going through their stupid approval process is a non-starter for me; just out of principle, I'm not going to lay myself supine and ask the massa if I can make high-tech improvements to the home just to appease their egos. And I'm certainly not going to give them a bribe to evaluate everything - especially since we don't even live in Colorado, so attending one of their meetings would be a pain in the ass. I ****ing hate HoA's, and have gotten pretty good over the years making sure it costs them 10 times what they collect from me in warchest expenditures.

Always better to study the CCnR's BEFORE making an expensive purchase, no surprises if you do that.

[Quietude]

If you hate HOAs, you shouldn't have bought property within one. 'Nuf sed.

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by davebarnes

You need a lawyer.
I have used this one with HOA docs.
https://www.yelp.com/biz/andrew-oh-willeke-denver

Please don’t go this route.

I like your original plan of just telling them to pound sand and doing whatever you want.

Please be sure to keep us updated. This has the makings of an awesome thread.

[Xanathos]

Originally Posted by Quietude

If you hate HOAs, you shouldn't have bought property within one. 'Nuf sed.

Couldn't really avoid it up there. I didn't want a house built in the 80's, as we aren't going to be there to handle things breaking. All of the newer stuff up there comes with deed restrictions because apparently that's just how Denver rolls. Like I said, I'm going to do the work whether or not they levy some 200 dollar fine for tearing up the yard for a couple days (and I'll just make sure they spend 2000 in legal expenses getting it), I'm just curious how much of a leash the state gives these entities.

[Xanathos]

Originally Posted by LHS79

Always better to study the CCnR's BEFORE making an expensive purchase, no surprises if you do that.

I read em. Standard fare. The lawn Nazi's gripe isn't with the geothermal system, per se, it's that I didn't give him a kickback before looking into doing it and that it's going to tear up the yard for a couple of days to lay the tubes before resetting it and putting in better landscaping.

It's not even so much that I'd be concerned their board would say no. It's an obvious improvement to the home that increases it's value and will create a better comp if we ever sell, and long term the aesthetics will be better because the landscaping is getting a facelift. It's that they're attempting to be bitchy because, for a whole weekend (oh, the humanity), it'll be an eyesore and I didn't ask the Massa permission to make a mess. And I've no interest in playing their games.

I'd take them more seriously if it was something that could be ordered removed after a legal dispute, but nobody is going to say to dig up the yard again to remove coolant tubes.

[Dreaming of Hawaii]

Xanathos, sounds like you need some anger management!

Yes, you bought into a covenant controlled community with your eyes open. It was totally your choice. No-one forced you into it. In fact, when you closed you signed a document acknowledging that you received a copy of the CC&Rs or Declaration. So rather than get into an ugly fight, why not just do what's being asked of you? How hard is it really to submit some plans for the HOA to review? Just because you feel you are improving the property doesn't give you the right to ignore the rules that you agreed to follow.

In answer to your question -- the State of Colorado gives a lot of leeway to HOAs to adopt and enforce covenants, rules, and regulations. However, the State also requires that the HOAs follow specific procedures in their enforcement, such as notifying their members of violations and giving opportunities for appeal.

[DurangoJoe]

I run a small HOA elsewhere in Colorado and I can tell you that the state makes it difficult for any community to have an HOA of any kind. The regulations, documentation required, etc drive up the HOA fees due to the cost of complying with all of the state requirements.

That being said, your covenants will pretty much govern ALL of the restrictions that the HOA may have to enforce in your community. Those covenants are important because they protect the investment of all HOA members & property owners in the community. Nearly all HOA's require some sort of an "application" or "review" process for improvements so that they can be assured that everything is in line with the governing covenants and nobody's property will be affected adversely. Sounds to me like you've got a bit of a hard a$$ on the other end but in all fairness, it's up to you, the property owner to follow all of the processes in place within the community and if it requires a review, so be it. As much as the HOA rep on the other end got nasty about it (that's just uncalled for IMHO), you do need to follow the processes to accomplish your project. A lawyer will do you no good. The community plat & covenants are filed with the county and are a matter of public record. You agreed to follow them when you closed on the property.

[Harpaint]

OP, if your plan is reasonable, why not just submit the plans and get approval? You'll be glad for the rules when you have a neighbor who wants to do something like put in a pidgeon coop.