Moving to Detroit, possibly (Grand Rapids, Warren: amusement park, high crime, buying a home)

[us66]

Originally Posted by detroitlove

I've literally seen someone suggest Gross Pointe over Detroit when the OP says he'll be working in Dearborn.

It's probably not the best suggestion, but commuting from GP/Macomb Couty is not an uncommon choice. Lots of people do it. Heck, when I lived at 17 and Hayes, a neighbor across the street and down a bit commuted from there to the Dearborn Truck Plant. That's not much further in terms of mileage than GP Woods as the crow flies, but from that part of Macomb County, a goodly portion of the commute (and why I don't want to ever live there again) was simply getting to the freeway.

"Personally, those 'burbs are textbook definitions of sprawling, bland, generic, inaccessible, car-dependent suburbs."

Yes, but a lot of people actually like them. Macomb Township wasn't built as part of a Soviet-style command economy.

[scolls]

Originally Posted by MidMichguy

First off, Royal Oak isn't the only 'burb close to Midtown. To get to Royal Oak you have to drive through Ferndale and Pleasant Ridge, both of which are suburbs and both of of which are pretty nice.

Look, if you have some sort of moral objection to taxes then I can understand. On the other hand, if you work in the city and live in the 'burbs you still pay a 1.25% city income tax (some of which you get back at the end of the year). What that means in real terms is that unless you make crazy money you're talking about $30-60 a month. Considering that you're talking about a driving commute of 7-10 miles to Ferndale that isn't exactly an earth-shattering amount of money. Particularly when you consider the grants available for living in midtown right now.

Another thing to consider is this- I moved to Detroit from Chicago. Sure, I pay a 2.5% income tax here. However, in Chicago I paid a 10.25% sales tax, plus all the additional taxes that got charged on the business owners before I walked in.

The intangibles of getting to walk to work and everywhere else you want to go are amazing, one of my few disappointments since moving here is that I can't walk to my office. If I worked in midtown I wouldn't live anywhere else.

I didn't say it was the only suburb close, I said it was the only one like midtown

[scolls]

Originally Posted by us66

It's probably not the best suggestion, but commuting from GP/Macomb Couty is not an uncommon choice. Lots of people do it. Heck, when I lived at 17 and Hayes, a neighbor across the street and down a bit commuted from there to the Dearborn Truck Plant. That's not much further in terms of mileage than GP Woods as the crow flies, but from that part of Macomb County, a goodly portion of the commute (and why I don't want to ever live there again) was simply getting to the freeway.

"Personally, those 'burbs are textbook definitions of sprawling, bland, generic, inaccessible, car-dependent suburbs."

Yes, but a lot of people actually like them. Macomb Township wasn't built as part of a Soviet-style command economy.

Grosee Pointe Shores (the furthest Grosse Pointe) is only 15 miles from Dearborn and it's all on 94. 20-30 minutes. The OP in that thread wanted an hour or less. I used to drive from Harper Woods to the airport in 30 minutes. Hell I used to drive every day from Harper Woods to Auburn Hills.

[us66]

Originally Posted by scolls

Grosee Pointe Shores (the furthest Grosse Pointe) is only 15 miles from Dearborn and it's all on 94. 20-30 minutes. The OP in that thread wanted an hour or less. I used to drive from Harper Woods to the airport in 30 minutes. Hell I used to drive every day from Harper Woods to Auburn Hills.

I'll agree with you on two points:
1. In light to moderate traffic, going somewhat faster than the speed limit (but still with traffic), Harper Woods to DTW is a 30 minute drive. I got on Moross once, did 80-something the whole way (not uncommon as the only meaningful speed enforcement there is between Allen Park and Romulus) and made it to nearly Ann Arbor in 30 minutes one time.
2. Harper Woods to Auburn Hills: A lot of metro Detroiters aren't afraid of long commutes. They complain the whole way about it, but there's people living within walking distance of Interstate 69 commuting down here every day.

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by us66

I'm sorry. I read that blog whose URL I can't remember offhand that shows pictures of poop and talks about law schools.

Oh, the Third Tier Reality blog. If you think that's bad, you should see what lawyers who pay attention to these sorts of issues think about Cooley Law School.

It's not that Wayne State's law school is bad. It's just that going to almost ANY law school today outside of the top 14 (as a general rule) is an awful thing to do to yourself because our nation has a gigantic oversupply of unemployed and underemployed attorneys. At least Wayne State's law school isn't a private institution charging $40,000/year. (Last I checked it was a mere $22,000/year, which is still outrageous for education that requires little more than classrooms, but perhaps the cheapest in the state.) However, Wayne's law school is a "third tier" law school in terms of its prestige and rankings compared to other law schools, qualifying it for that sort of treatment. (Even many second tier and perhaps some lower first tier law schools might be susceptible to that blogger's wrath.)

I just wanted to point out to people in a relevant thread about Wayne State that Wayne's law school had received the Third Tier Reality treatment. I do think that if 75% of the law schools were closed, which is what is needed to end the brutal humanitarian crisis that has devastated the economic health of people with law degrees, Wayne State's law school would be one of the ones that would have to go (leaving the nation with about 50 law schools, or about one per state).

Here's a link to that blog for those who are curious:

http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com

Here's the link to the post about WSU's law school. Perhaps the tuition is $24,000/year now.

http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com...niversity.html

Give that guy some credit. He blogs under his real identity and in spite of how silly his blog may appear, he has more readers than other similar blogs and his posts always generate numerous comments. In a podcast interview he said that he uses that sort of imagery to draw attention to his blog and that he is covering what he regards as a horrible, disgusting scam. His interview starts around the 20 minute mark of this podcast:

http://www.downbylaw.org/down-by-lawcast-episode-5-10302010.html (broken link)

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by detroitlove

Like someone else pointed out, what is your purpose of repeatedly posting that article? There are plenty of people who haven't had a bad experience here as well, one damn person don't mean ish

The point is to provide an example of what could happen to someone who wants to move into the city for altruistic reasons to "make a difference". I agree that her story is extreme. (However, there is a reason why some people feel compelled to put bars on their windows. Perhaps there's something to this story?) It's an example of a good-naturred person who sincerely wanted to "make a difference" and of the "gratitude" she received in return.

Also, this story was actually published in a major, reputable newspaper. Referring to a Wall Street journal article with a link is much better than saying, "I have heard stories about..." or "I have watched local TV news stories about burglaries in Detroit..."

Someone who is seriously considering moving into the City of Detroit or buying a home owes it to themselves to read that article for a different perspective. If they still want to do it, more power to them, but at least they'll have some sense of what kinds of problems and risks they might be facing or at least are more susceptible to.

[UKUKUK]

Originally Posted by Willis84

A couple of the downsides which are annoying me right now:

-The Detroit and Michigan Income Tax... coming from a State with no income tax this will be annoying.
-The tuition at Wayne State is highly attractive, however the university has little name recognition. The grad program I am interested in isn't highly ranked either. Due to the nature of my work (consulting), I usually have to relocate to some other part of the country every few years.

Crazy question... is it feasible to work fulltime Detroit, go to night classes in Ann Arbor? If feasible, would it make more sense to live in Ann Arbor? This violates my life where you work principles, but I'm just exploring all my options.

Minuscule sales tax will counter that. Wayne's a great school. It's all about how you market the degree, not where you got it.

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by detroitlove

I agree with everything you said. Add on to that the OP repeatedly expresses his "cheapness" last I checked non of those are "cheap", esp not Troy.

I haven't paid much attention to Troy, but you can find condos and houses in Farmington Hills and some of those other cities for under $50,000. (It's sad and amazing to see just how much condo prices have dropped; glad I didn't buy one.) Do a search here:

Real Estate One - Property Search: Homes

Houses in Farmington/Farmington Hills (21 found):

Real Estate One - Michigan Real Estate -Oakland-Farmington|Farmington Hills-10000-50000-2356721,23

Condos (34 found):

Real Estate One - Michigan Real Estate -Oakland-Farmington|Farmington Hills-10000-50000-2357293,23

If you're planning to live in the area long-term, it doesn't make sense to pay rent at those prices. (There are many more properties in that price range under 1200 sq feet. Why rent an 800 ft apartment when you could just own your own 900 ft condo for $35,000?)

My main thing is this, why would anybody want to commute from either of those to the city everyday? Yes if you've lived in MI all of your life and you're used to it thats fine but I doubt anybody from somewhere else would want to deal with the traffic and everyday trip back and forth from Troy to Detroit.

The commute isn't necessarily that awful. I haven't done it for years, but I used to drive back and forth from the 'burbs to downtown Detroit everyday and never thought it was that bad if I hit the freeway around 7:00 am. Our traffic problems are nothing like what they have in some other cities.

Why live out in the suburbs? Better public schools. Lower susceptibility to crime. Better shopping. Newer housing.

[scolls]

Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn

The point is to provide an example of what could happen to someone who wants to move into the city for altruistic reasons to "make a difference". I agree that her story is extreme. (However, there is a reason why some people feel compelled to put bars on their windows. Perhaps there's something to this story?) It's an example of a good-naturred person who sincerely wanted to "make a difference" and of the "gratitude" she received in return.

Also, this story was actually published in a major, reputable newspaper. Referring to a Wall Street journal article with a link is much better than saying, "I have heard stories about..." or "I have watched local TV news stories about burglaries in Detroit..."

Someone who is seriously considering moving into the City of Detroit or buying a home owes it to themselves to read that article for a different perspective. If they still want to do it, more power to them, but at least they'll have some sense of what kinds of problems and risks they might be facing or at least are more susceptible to.

It's irrelevant to what the original poster is looking for. I gather he wants a more urban living like in a condo building. Go over to the Chicago forum and post the video of the kid getting beaten to death in the street with a 2x4 and tell everyone this could happen.

[us66]

Originally Posted by scolls

It's irrelevant to what the original poster is looking for. I gather he wants a more urban living like in a condo building. Go over to the Chicago forum and post the video of the kid getting beaten to death in the street with a 2x4 and tell everyone this could happen.

Naah. He should post these links. These should also be required reading for Michigan college students, many of whom think Chicago is the Best Place On Earth. I found another one recently, but I can't find the URL. It had the age and race of the homicide victims. I found it one day a couple of months ago the day after we returned from a North Side shopping trip (remember, everyone thinks the North Side of Chicago is almost universally safe) and something like a year earlier, there was a murder a block away from the side street where we parked our car.

chicago.everyblock.com/crime/
chicagocrime.org
Chicago Crime Database -- chicagotribune.com
Chicago Crime Blog



Speaking of which, here's the Detroit Crime Map from http://www.spotcrime.com/mi/detroit . All of the blue man icons, representing theft, and all the black man icons, representing robbery, it looks like an old game of Army Men from when we were kids.