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You can't revive a region, without reviving its heart. The heart of the region is the city itself.
Detroit is a weight around the entire region's neck.
It's thoroughly dysfunctional.
And it needs a serious INTERVENTION.
And to top it all off, it's inhabited by antagonistic, vengeful types like yourself.
But then, you're just a real estate poacher who can pick up and leave any time he feels like it.
You share neither the ethnic background, nor the history, nor the social ills, of the majority of the city's population.
You just happen to be "not pure" White.
You're as "Black" as some computer engineer from Tamil Nadu.
Money sees no color. People will invest where and when they see opportunities. That's why Africa is booming. Not Detroit.
It's hard enough to resuscitate any post-industrial city,
the last thing a gov't or the investor needs to see is a bunch of self-righteous, dysfunctional and under-educated people, screaming racism,
while they line up for their unemployment checks.
When I was a teenager my father ran a business, and he had hired a Black guy. There weren't that many Blacks in that particular community, but the guy's color never deterred my father from hiring him. The guy wasn't performing up to his standards, so he fired him.
Well, the fired employee accused my father of racism, and threatened to take him to court. Do you think that a guy like him won't be scared of hiring another Black worker?
He didn't know that my father was notorious for firing people. No one was good enough for him. He fired everybody and anybody. The only employee that lasted over a year almost had a nervous breakdown.
Well, there is something important to think about. That man didn't know your father was notorious for firing people, and might have reacted the same way to someone else for this reason: Lack of trust.
One of the biggest reasons for bad race relations is lack of trust. Many White people don't trust Black people. Many Black people don't trust Whites or feel that White people would want anything good for them.
I knew that if I rubbed that girl the right way she'd come out with all claws, shrieking.
Now, lol, where the **** did you get I was a 'real estate poacher'?
Quote:
Detroit is a weight around the entire region's neck.
It's thoroughly dysfunctional.
And it needs a serious INTERVENTION.
And to top it all off, it's inhabited by antagonistic, vengeful types like yourself.
But then, you're just a real estate poacher who can pick up and leave any time he feels like it.
From who does it need intervention? Did you guys manage running the auto industry much better?
If anything is weighing down the region it's the auto industry. It's not what goes on in Detroit. The suburbs cut themselves from us long ago, and we kissed them goodbye. You'd understand that if you weren't some Toronto bird.
Quote:
You share neither the ethnic background, nor the history, nor the social ills, of the majority of the city's population.
You just happen to be "not pure" White.
You're as "Black" as some computer engineer from Tamil Nadu.
lmao, no ****. I told the coldjensens guy that I'm neither black nor white. The post you read and now you swoop down to patronize me like you know me. I ain't no Indian techie either.
I got my own dog in this fight and that's how I'M treated out in those suburbs. And I don't like it, but for the most part I don't give a ****. I do give a **** when those same people begin talking about what they think should be done in Detroit. Do I make myself clear when I say I want no part of your judgement, of your rule, of your morals.
Quote:
When I was a teenager my father ran a business, and he had hired a Black guy. There weren't that many Blacks in that particular community, but the guy's color never deterred my father from hiring him. The guy wasn't performing up to his standards, so he fired him.
Well, the fired employee accused my father of racism, and threatened to take him to court.
Do you think that a guy like him won't be scared of hiring another Black worker?
He didn't know that my father was notorious for firing people. No one was good enough for him. He fired everybody and anybody. The only employee that lasted over a year almost had a nervous breakdown.
My parents risked their lives to make it to North America. On first attempt, my mother got through. My father was lucky. They didn't kill him the first time. He was caught and let free. He got through on his second attempt. A lot of people died making trying to get across that same border. They met in a refugee camp.
They were members of a very undesirable minority from a very totalitarian regime.
Upon arrival here, neither spoke English. My mother had grade 3 education, as she had had to drop out of school because of WW2. She was an orphan.
My father had a trade school education.
They had 3 kids between them. My mother worked 2-3 jobs FOR YEARS.
At first, she cleaned houses and beauty salons. In between, she cooked and cleaned for the family. On the weekends, she often picked worms during the nights.
She saved her money and opened her own business. She taught herself how to read English. Her handwriting and spelling are still awful.
She has since retired to a beautiful and modest villa on the Mediterranean.
She still reads a lot.
My father also BUSTED his ####, and saved his pennies, and opened a business. Usually, I wouldn't see him at home, except for Sundays. He left for work before 7 and got home after we went to sleep. When both my parents were at work, my older sister took care of me.
On Saturdays, I'd join him in his business. I helped out, and wasn't paid. I had another part-time job after school.
He has since passed away. He was always very frugal, never ate in restaurants, made his own vino, bought his meat from the farmer, bought his vegetables by the bushel, and smoked his own meats.
Never took a trip further than the fishing camps up north, and only went to Europe for a week, once.
We ate from our own backyard, even into my parents' old age. We froze, canned, dried and smoked our fruits, veggies and meats.
My retired mother still forages for wild vegetables around her house on the Mediterranean. Nothing is thrown away. Everything is reused.
The beet leaves are sauteed and every bone goes into the stock pot.
We cooked at home, lived frugally, grew our own, and THEN, when there was money left over, we splurged, IN STYLE. We NEVER bought junk.
Come to think of it, knowing my parents' lifestyle, they'd do very well in Detroit, even today.
They knew how to live a healthy lifestyle, how to be self-sufficient, work hard, how to make sacrifices and commitments, and how to DREAM BIG, yet expect little. They were COMMITTED and DISCIPLINED. They didn't smoke, and drank socially. They didn't even know what drugs were. They didn't look to God to save them, but they cherished a lot of values which are usually espoused by the very religious.
Just remember, my mother worked for minimum wage, for years. My father's hourly wage wasn't all that great either. But by working overtime, double shifts, by being frugal, by staying committed and united, they were able to elevate themselves from the working class to a very comfortable and respectable middle class.
Before my father passed away, my brother was marrying a girl from the ranks of those, whose houses my mother cleaned when they came to this continent.
Solid family support and education were THE KEY to his success.
And you know what? The girl may have come from a wealthier background, but with his looks, education and upbringing, my brother was THE catch. He's as solid as a rock. And he isn't poor either.
ps. we happen not to be "dark", but I come from a minority that is very undesirable, usually VISIBLE and comes in a range of colors. Honestly, to get into the right school today, you may as well be a visible minority of some kind.
They're dying for successful minority kids who show promise.
I mean, the key to Obama's success (or failure) was not his color, but a committed mother, a great set of grandparents (who gave THEIR ALL) and a great education.
It didn't hurt that both his parents were brilliant. And both my parents were go-getters, risk takers, and very bright.
Last edited by SadieMirsade; 03-25-2012 at 09:44 PM..
One has to keep in mind that there is a sort of race to the bottom going on in global economics. Capital and capitalist are seeking the path of least resistance to profit, which translates to, usually, low wages, low taxes and low regulation.
Michigan success, largely through unions, gave workers in Michigan some of the highest incomes and standard of living in the nation. However, this success became a detriment as the race to the bottom by corporations ramped up. It also kept businesses from locating in the state because they feared the influence of unions and the overal cost were high relative to the South. The south had right to work laws, low regulations and low taxes and woed companies highligthing their cost savings.
I don't want to go on too long with this point, but many factors that drove production away and kept others from opening up business in the state, have lessened greatly. When I hear people talk about the future of the area, its not done with very much intellect. One has to look at the indgrediants that led to the decline.....all have been greatly reduced.
I have been to many states and Michigan is one of the most beautiful states in the country and human populations have always been drawn to water and Michigan has more coastline than any state, probably with the exception of Florida. It also is blessed with the largest fresh water source in the world, I believe. Try doing some research and learn about how water tables are being depleted and how many sun belt areas have parched futures because water is being used faster than it can be naturally replenished. Fresh water is the oil or gold of the near future and Michigan has plenty of it.
I made several predictions years ago, including the economic collapse that manifested. I predicted that 4 years before it happened. Economics, although not my profession, is my passion. I had an minor in econ in college and earned all A's in every related course. I would bet you anything that if America does not do a complete crash that Michigan and Detroit....will make a strong and surprising comeback.
The level of racism among young whites is much less than among older whites. Their views on living in the city is a lot different from their parents and many of them are tired of the suburban lifestyle. Leading businessmen in the area have dedicated themselves to the revitalization of downtown and companies are moving workers from the suburbs to the city. The auto industry shed itself of oppressive legacy cost of retirees and new union workers make a lot less money and get less benefits. More Americans are thinking "buy American" as well, and Japan's economy is on the brink of collapse. The cost of homes in Michigan and especially Detroit are crazy low. It will take awhile to shake off negative momentum and naysayers...but if this country comes back....Michigan and Detroit will make a head turning comeback. I am just not confident in America's future....however.
honestly, you're talking to the wrong person. My dad is from dagestan and my mom is from puerto rico. Both immigrants. Met in the usa, LA. You know real all American love story.
I could fill a book with sob stories about both my parents. I could fill you with sob stories about ME. I honestly ****ed my own life up by doing some things many years ago that landed me in and out, in and out. But I don't blame anyone else for it. I have 2 kids and I do my best to get them the money they need even though their mom, my former wife, wants nothing to do with me and even got a restraining order on me. Again my fault. I'm not going to win any awards but I make do with WHAT I HAVE.
This ain't about me but opinionated people telling others they're failures and for them to step aside and let them run the show when they also failed. So **** them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SadieMirsade
My parents risked their lives to make it to North America. On first attempt, my mother got through. My father was lucky. They didn't kill him the first time. He was caught and let free. He got through on his second attempt. A lot of people died making trying to get across that same border. They met in a refugee camp.
They were members of a very undesirable minority from a very totalitarian regime.
Upon arrival here, neither spoke English. My mother had grade 3 education, as she had had to drop out of school because of WW2. She was an orphan.
My father had a trade school education.
They had 3 kids between them. My mother worked 2-3 jobs FOR YEARS.
At first, she cleaned houses and beauty salons. In between, she cooked and cleaned for the family. On the weekends, she often picked worms during the nights.
She saved her money and opened her own business. She taught herself how to read English. Her handwriting and spelling are still awful.
She has since retired to a beautiful and modest villa on the Mediterranean.
She still reads a lot.
My father also BUSTED his ####, and saved his pennies, and opened a business. Usually, I wouldn't see him at home, except for Sundays. He left for work before 7 and got home after we went to sleep. When both my parents were at work, my oldest sister took care of me.
On Saturdays, I'd join him in his business. I helped out, and wasn't paid. I had another part-time job after school.
He has since passed away. He was always very frugal, never ate in restaurants, made his own vino, bought his meat from the farmer, bought his vegetables by the bushel, and smoked his own meats.
Never took a trip further than the fishing camps up north, and only went to Europe for a week, once.
We ate from our own backyard, even into my parents' old age. We froze, canned, dried and smoked our fruits, veggies and meats.
My retired mother still forages for wild vegetables around her house on the Mediterranean. Nothing is thrown away. Everything is reused.
The beet leaves are sauteed and every bone goes into the stock pot.
We cooked at home, lived frugally, grew our own, and THEN, when there was money left over, we splurged, IN STYLE. We NEVER bought junk.
Come to think of it, knowing my parents' lifestyle, they'd do very well in Detroit, even today.
They knew how to live a healthy lifestyle, how to be self-sufficient, work hard, how to make sacrifices and commitments, and how to DREAM BIG, yet expect little.
Just remember, my mother worked for minimum wage, for years. My father's hourly wage wasn't all that great either. But by working overtime, double shifts, by being frugal, by staying committed and united, they were able to elevate themselves from the working class to a very comfortable and respectable middle class.
Before my father passed away, my brother was marrying a girl from the ranks of those whose houses my mother cleaned when they came to this continent.
Solid family support and education were THE KEY.
And you know what? The girl may have come from a wealthier background, but with his looks, education and upbringing, my brother was THE catch. He's as solid as a rock. And he isn't poor either.
ps. we happen not to be "dark", but I come from a minority that is very undesirable, usually VISIBLE and a range of colors. Honestly, to get into the right school today, you may as well be a visible minority of some kind.
They're dying for successful minority kids who show promise.
I mean, the key to Obama's success (or failure) was not his color, but a committed mother, a great set of grandparents (who gave THEIR ALL) and a great education.
It didn't hurt that both his parents were brilliant. And both my parents were go-getters, risk takers, and very bright.
One has to keep in mind that there is a sort of race to the bottom going on in global economics. Capital and capitalist are seeking the path of least resistance to profit, which translates to, usually, low wages, low taxes and low regulation.
Michigan success, largely through unions, gave workers in Michigan some of the highest incomes and standard of living in the nation. However, this success became a detriment as the race to the bottom by corporations ramped up. It also kept businesses from locating in the state because they feared the influence of unions and the overal cost were high relative to the South. The south had right to work laws, low regulations and low taxes and woed companies highligthing their cost savings.
I am just not confident in America's future....however.
I think what a lot of forum participants ignore, or aren't aware of, is that Michigan IS THE heartland of American Modernism, industrial product design and manufacturing.
The infrastructure is still there. The know-how, design and research is still being done there. The great schools are still there. The headquarters of the main manufacturers are still there. All in Michigan, but not in Detroit.
The question is HOW to bring production back home? And how to bring, at least some of it, to the city of Detroit.
How much of the production that's gone abroad, can be brought back to North America? Under what circumstances? What conditions?
According to a lot of Canadians, the reason a lot of American manufacturing has moved to Canada is the LOW COST (cost efficiency) OF SOCIALIZED HEALTHCARE in Canada. I haven't researched the subject, but I suspect that there has to be $$$ and savings involved.
ps. if America can abstain from waging useless wars, and stop patrolling the entire world,
therefore if it can cut down its military expenditures, I'll be VERY CONFIDENT about its future. Otherwise, there will simply be no money left to invest in anything except for paying the interest on the national debt, and buying guns for the military.
The reason Europe has done so well since WW2 is because they haven't really fought any wars since then.
The MAIN reason why Turkey's economy is growing at 9% per annum, is because they also haven't fought a real war for almost a 100 years.
Brazil is another one. No wars. Minimal expenditures, in comparison to the US. High growth.
Also, we have to look at foreign successful models of collaboration between the unions, government and capital. There is NO WAY this class-baiting can go on any longer. The rich can't act like they don't owe society anything.
Last edited by SadieMirsade; 03-25-2012 at 10:41 PM..
WOO! AMEN! TELL IT 313! I WAS BORN AND RAISED IN THIS "BURIAL PLOT" AND I'M FIXIN' TO HEAD SOUTH Y'ALL! LOL!
No, but seriously...Me and my friend -also raised in Detroit- agree 200%. Alot of times people who fight tooth and nail to defend this city are not the ones who are hit the hardest by the decisions that have been made. And someone said to invite the OP to Detroit for a week, buy him a coney, show him around, etc.
Tell that too the people of Detroit who live in poverty-not because they don't want a job but because businesses are closing and people are being laid off left and right. Tell them to put up a guest for a week, when alot of people's homes are in foreclosure and some are forced to live in a shelter or move back home with mom and dad!
And show him around?! In what?! If you have a car, you are being raped at the gas pump with the outrageous prices (that you can't pay because you don't have a job). If you don't have a car or can't pay the gas prices, you have to rely on the almost non-existent public transportation. The same almost non-existent public transportation that just cut over 100 buses and over 100 drivers within the city, and restricted most of the better running "suburban" buses from entering city limits!
DETROIT COMING BACK?! Please! The ashes are still smoking and I don't foresee anything rising...Unless it's the number of people-including myself- climbing out of the grave that is called Detroit. But I digress
Just wondering what does the bolded have to do with showing someone around??? And if your in poverty your in poverty, doesn't really matter if your in Detroit or not, matterfact, if I was poor I would rather be in Detroit, in some of these other cities being poor you would either be in a crammed up apartment somewhere or in an alley way freezing your ass off sharing a barrow of fire. Gas prices are high everywhere also. And yes DDOT is bad but it's not that bad, I have to use it sometimes and I know people who use it to get around and to even get to work everyday, and they still have jobs.
honestly, you're talking to the wrong person. My dad is from dagestan and my mom is from puerto rico. Both immigrants. Met in the usa, LA. You know real all American love story.
I could fill a book with sob stories about both my parents. I could fill you with sob stories about ME. I honestly ****ed my own life up by doing some things many years ago that landed me in and out, in and out. But I don't blame anyone else for it. I have 2 kids and I do my best to get them the money they need even though their mom, my former wife, wants nothing to do with me and even got a restraining order on me. Again my fault. I'm not going to win any awards but I make do with WHAT I HAVE.
This ain't about me but opinionated people telling others they're failures and for them to step aside and let them run the show when they also failed. So **** them.
We have to have some sort of value system.
You'd call that "opinions".
We've all made our own mistakes, but ultimately, we all acknowledge that there is something inherently wrong with our society.
We don't have very many role models? Do we?
And WHY shouldn't somebody, anybody, come up to you and suggest another way of doing things?
Shouldn't we all be looking out for each other?
I think that with the economic upheavals that are ahead of us, the family is our only remaining safety-net. That is why I keep driving the point that we have to be accountable to our families, and we have to treat our families as a community, we have to create functional families if we are to survive the difficult times. The gov'ts are up to their ears in debt. There is no free money left.
There is no place for anger and finger pointing. Only collected calm and stoicism can get us over this huge bump ahead of us.
Last edited by SadieMirsade; 03-25-2012 at 11:09 PM..
As this thread continues I feel I need to remind some of you to stay on topic and calm down a bit, just because the software censored what you wrote it doesn't mean it's ok to post it.
Yac.
The last decade showed a clear pattern all across America of large numbers of African Americans moving from central cities to the suburbs. about 200,000 African American left the city of Chicago. Even the black mecca of Atlanta saw a drop in its African American population. Oakland, California, Cleveland…..it was a national trend and phenomenon. This phenomenon, I believe, was largely the result of the housing bubble phenomenon, which opened up suburban opportunities for African Americans like never before.
I point this out because Detroit’s population losses the last decade was more to do with something national than something local. People argue that things are so bad in Detroit that there was a massive exodus to the suburbs. Well, things must have also been terrible in Chicago and all the other major and minor cities that witnessed a large percentage of African Americans moving to the suburbs. Also, there was a large shift of people from inner ring suburbs to exurbs as well (these are the people who sold their homes, many of them, to African Americans from the principle cities); hence, can we argue equally that things were so bad in inner ring suburbs too? Low interest loans, no money down, no income verification, subprime loans, worked in concert in shifting people outward from their previous situation.
Another issue that I keep reminding people of is that during the 2000 census there was a massive local effort to get people counted, by the city of Detroit. Funding is tied to population count and previous mayors put great effort in getting as many people counted as possible. Dave Bing failed to do that. Secondly, the 2000 official enumeration count for the city of Detroit was adjusted upward about 54,000 people as a result of a suit filed by the City of Detroit, along with other cities, claiming minority undercounts. The 2010 census count was not adjusted. If it was adjusted based upon the same formula of last time, the city’s population would have been adjusted up to near 800,000. Hence, the fact that there was no adjustment, like last time, and no massive get out the count effort, like last time, could account to as much as a 100,000 count discrepancy, as there is a significant margin for error in the enumeration process.
People are headline huggers. They don’t dig for better understanding. Instead, they just use headlines to back the narrative that they are emotionally invested in. If there was no housing bubble the last decade and if an effort was made to get out the count and there was also an adjustment like the previous decade, I believe Detroit’s population count would be around 825,000, down from 954,000 and most cities in many of the other cities in the USA would not have lost such a large percent of African Americans either.
The way that Detroit problems are being characterized, erroneously, is leading many residents to give up hope on the city and to start to believe the city is as bad and hopeless like people portray it to be, based upon what transpired the last decade. People need to know that what happened last decade was not endemic to Detroit, but that African Americans all across the country moved to the suburbs from the city. They need to understand that the housing bubble facilitated this shift and they need to understand that there was no adjustment to the census tally and that the mayor did not push an effort to get everyone counted. That is why Detroit came out looking the way it did in headlines all across America, as having lost a quarter of its population.
There is too much observation without explanation. People don't seem to want to use events of the past to explain anything in the present. People seem hell bent on Detroit being seen as a failure born from incompetence, corruption and citizens who, like children, don't know whats best for them and need others to make such decisions for them......which has a lot to do with the demographics of the city.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 03-26-2012 at 08:19 AM..
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