Midtown Detroit as safe as Birmingham? (Wayne, Hastings: house, neighborhood, universities)

[PA Born]

Originally Posted by MarvinStrong313

NO THERE IS NOT!!! I can't even find a single homicide that happened so far this year in Midtown. .

Stop shouting, and yes, there are many shootings and some homicides in Midtown. I seriously doubt there are many shootings or homicides in Birmingham.

Here's a recent Detroit News shootings/homicide map.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/99999999/SPECIAL01/120606001

Midtown has five confirmed homicides, and two additional suspected homicides, and many, many shootings since May 1, 2012.

Let's put it this way. There's no way in hell that any decent suburb had seven homicides since May 1 of last year. Even most crappy suburbs won't have seven homicides in less than a year.

Midtown isn't safe. It's only safe when you're comparing it to super high-crime areas of Detroit.

Originally Posted by MarvinStrong313

With that being said where did you hear about this meat market??? Can't find any info about it anywhere.

Robberies don't usually make the news in Midtown, or anywhere in Detroit, because they're so common. The meat market is called Ye Olde Butcher Shoppe, and there's a thread at DetroitYes detailing all their robberies after opening.

[belleislerunner]

What are the street interesections of the five confirmed homicides you reference?

I'm looking at the map you refereced and while there are shootings - my version doesn't show any confirmed homicides in the Midtown area (i.e. Lodge to the west, 94 to the North, 75/to East and West). Maybe you posted the wrong link or are using a different definition of Midtown. But I think this exact map was used a few months back to argue how much safer Midtown is compared to the rest of Detroit. As actual data to support that premise.

[PA Born]

Originally Posted by belleislerunner

I'm looking at the map you refereced and while there are shootings - my version doesn't show any confirmed homicides in the Midtown area (i.e. Lodge to the west, 94 to the North, 75/to East and West).

Are you looking at the Detroit News map I posted? I see four homicides in Midtown, and three Downtown. I should have said Downtown/Midtown, not just Midtown.

Homicides in last 9 months-

1. Woodward & Temple- Cass Corridor
2. Mack & I-75- Medical Center
3. Woodward & Grand Blvd.- New Center
4. Beaubien & Smith- New Center
5. Woodward & John R- Downtown
6. Congress & Brush- Downtown
7. Jefferson & St. Antoine- Downtown

In addition, I see four homicides in the general Woodbridge area, five homicides in Lafayette/Elmwood park. one homicide in Corktown and two homicides in the Henry Ford Hospital/Kiefer Hosptial area. These areas are often grouped with Downtown/Midtown.

So, in supposedly "safe" core Detroit (the part with gentrification and investment), we have 19 homicides in 9 months! And this is in an area with a smaller population than most suburbs. This is supposed to be "the same as Birmingham"??

Originally Posted by belleislerunner

But I think this exact map was used a few months back to argue how much safer Midtown is compared to the rest of Detroit. As actual data to support that premise.

I don't think anyone here would argue differently. Certainly Midtown is safer than the rest of Detroit, considering there's a virtual occupying force of Wayne State police, plus all types of private institutions with security forces.

But the claim was that Midtown was as safe as Birmingham, which sounds ludicrous. 19 homicides in the general vicinity isn't safe!

[belleislerunner]

Therein lies the distinction. We are only talking about "Midtown" the area that is bound by the areas of M10 to the west, 94 to the north, 75 to the south/west. Everyone on this forum will admit that other areas of Detroit have hundreds of murders.

However, as we stated, that area contains zero confirmed homicides. I think you even used the word "confirmed" in your posting. #1) If you look at the color is a suspected homicide - so we ignored that. Yes, it could be considered - but if we are going with "confirmed" (a different color) - it would be excluded. #2 - If you zoom in - that murder was on the eastern side of 75 (probably the McDonalds) and is outside the "midtown" zone. #3-#7 are all outside the Midtown zone - albeit in other sections of Detroit.

So for purposes of this assignment, Midtown does have zero "confirmed" homicides- based off factual data. No one here considers Midtown, Downtown or New Center to be the same. Neither should you. The claim of Midtown and B'Ham probably only considered confirmed homicides - no one would be silly enough to draw that conclusion based off car thefts etc. And with those two criteria (assuming B'Ham had no confirmed homicides) - for that very narrow criterion - the statement would actually be true.

PS - I'm not trying to pick a fight with you or pretend Midtown is a haven of water lilies - I'm just empiracly trying to prove the statement relative to confirmed homicides between the two cities/sections of town is actually true.

[jonnynonos]

Unless Birmingham had 10 shootings the statement is not true.

I've heard that one of the big reasons that murders are down in major cities in the last 25 years is simply better emergency room technology.

More people are being saved after they get shot.

Not sure if that's true or not but plausible.

[PA Born]

Originally Posted by belleislerunner

Therein lies the distinction. We are only talking about "Midtown" the area that is bound by the areas of M10 to the west, 94 to the north, 75 to the south/west. Everyone on this forum will admit that other areas of Detroit have hundreds of murders.

So, according to your definition, Midtown is only the Wayne State campus and immediate blocks. It isn't New Center, it isn't Woodbridge, it isn't anything else.

This is definitely not the common definition of Midtown.

Originally Posted by belleislerunner

However, as we stated, that area contains zero confirmed homicides.

No, that tiny area contains 2 homicides, in just a few month, in just a few blocks, and 19 homicides in a few square miles.

And yes, Mack & I-75 is Midtown. If something positive were happening at Mack & I-75, no one here would say "Oh, but that isn't Midtown; it shouldn't count!".

Originally Posted by belleislerunner

So for purposes of this assignment, Midtown does have zero "confirmed" homicides- based off factual data.

No, the purposes of this assignment, using the most narrow definition, there are four homicides, three of which are confirmed. New Center is always considered part of Midtown. Medical Center is always considered part of Midtown.

Your claim is basically "there have been no murders on the Wayne State campus for the last few months, therefore Midtown is safe".

In reality, Midtown includes all the areas under discussion. Here's the official Midtown website, with map-
Midtown Detroit Inc. | Where life is art

The official Detroit Midtown alliance considers the area up to Henry Ford Hospital to be Midtown, which would actually cover a bigger area than I claimed. If you include this area too, there are actually six homicides.

So the official boundaries show six homicides in nine months in Midtown. The Birmingham Police reports one homicide in the last 10 years.

[MS313]

Originally Posted by belleislerunner

Therein lies the distinction. We are only talking about "Midtown" the area that is bound by the areas of M10 to the west, 94 to the north, 75 to the south/west. Everyone on this forum will admit that other areas of Detroit have hundreds of murders.

However, as we stated, that area contains zero confirmed homicides. I think you even used the word "confirmed" in your posting. #1) If you look at the color is a suspected homicide - so we ignored that. Yes, it could be considered - but if we are going with "confirmed" (a different color) - it would be excluded. #2 - If you zoom in - that murder was on the eastern side of 75 (probably the McDonalds) and is outside the "midtown" zone. #3-#7 are all outside the Midtown zone - albeit in other sections of Detroit.

So for purposes of this assignment, Midtown does have zero "confirmed" homicides- based off factual data. No one here considers Midtown, Downtown or New Center to be the same. Neither should you. The claim of Midtown and B'Ham probably only considered confirmed homicides - no one would be silly enough to draw that conclusion based off car thefts etc. And with those two criteria (assuming B'Ham had no confirmed homicides) - for that very narrow criterion - the statement would actually be true.

PS - I'm not trying to pick a fight with you or pretend Midtown is a haven of water lilies - I'm just empiracly trying to prove the statement relative to confirmed homicides between the two cities/sections of town is actually true.

Wish I could rep you but I must spread some around. Finding the Midtown boundaries is not difficult at all. The entire area is surrounded by freeways so it's relatively easy to see the boundaries. Looking at the details of these shootings, some of them were just reported at the hospital that happened to be in Midtown. There are zero confirmed homicides within the Midtown boundaries since last year. One of them is just right outside of Midtown but not technically in Midtown which makes Midtown's murder rate currently the same as Birmingham.

New Center and Midtown are 2 different neighborhoods btw. Downtown, Midtown, New Center, Woodbridge, Corktown, Lafayette Park, ect are all different neighborhoods. It's like saying Bloomfield and Pontiac are the same because they are close together.

[belleislerunner]

We're going sideways - but here's just one sampling of many - Curbed is another good resource - that Midtown/New Center/Woodbridge/Downtown are all very distinct neighborhoods. Yes they are close. But the same they are not. City Living Detroit

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

Saying Midtown and Birmingham's murder rate is the same is VERY, VERY different than saying their overall crime rate is the same.

[PA Born]

Originally Posted by MarvinStrong313

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New Center and Midtown are 2 different neighborhoods btw.

No, they're the same neighborhood. New Center falls within the official Midtown boundaries.

Basically what's happening is that people are claiming that nothing is Midtown except for the Wayne State campus area, because that's the only area that had no murders.

The official Midtown alliance includes everything north of downtown, up to the Henry Ford Hosptial area, and that's the same working definition I get from most people. That area had 6 murders in the last 9 months.