Metro Detroit's "Little Italy"? (Hamtramck, Coleman: neighbourhood, organic, to move)

[daffyodill2003]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

I have never heard much about Italians in Detroit and I am a history buff. Originally French and English. Later, lots of Polish and Slavic people, quite a few Scandanavians, lots of African Americans, more recently lots of Middle easterners and Hispanic's/Mexicans. Probably a lot of Canadians too.

No room left for Italians.

About 20 years ago there were a lot of ialians in the Fraser/Roseville area. I am not sure whether that is still true.

I think Little Italy was in the Wyandotte area. Most of the references come from the late 1800 and early 1900's with the early mafia.

[RingWalk]

Comapred to other big cities there's not that strong of an Italian presence. Yes some suburbs have a higher concentration of Italians than others and some very, very distant remnants of Italian culture in the form of sandwich shops and the like, but compared to Chicago or especially cities on the East Coast, virtually nothing. Even Chicago's Little Italy neighborhoods are nothing to write home about these days.

[313 TUxedo]

Logical conclusions to be read between the lines of all of these posts:

1) From the beginning, Italian arrivals came to many neighborhoods in Detroit and its oldest suburbs, not just to one neighborhood.

2) Like all ethnic communities in the Detroit area, Italians learned to speak English, were successful in both factory work, their own businesses, and leadership roles, some married outside their Italian group, and today their grandchildren are found anywhere in the Detroit metro area where White people are found (though may might be a little more well represented in Macomb County compared to Metro Detroit in general).

3) They have left profound, positive cultural contributions and influences to the area.

[ForStarters]

There are a lot of Italians in Metro Detroit. The fact is, they are now all spread out. Someone said above that East Dearborn had a high concentration of Italians and Polish. Well, that's me, except with some slivers of French, German, Norwegian (I think), and Native American. If you came with me, I could show you entire city blocks where Italians once lived in East Dearborn. Stop into Dearborn Italian Bakery (DIB) sometime. They'll know of me. But, over time, the Italians moved further out to the western suburbs. I know that there are many families that are still connected to the 3rd, 4th, and even 5th degree bloodline despite being dispersed. Detroit Italians never organized into a particular area in the last half-century, like the Greeks.

Like I said in an earlier post, across the river in Windsor, there is a little Italy with numerous authentic Italian restaurants. I try to get over there when I can. If you want to stay in the city, check out Roma Cafe in Eastern Market or Mario's in Midtown. La Dolce Vita in Palmer Park is also a staple. You've also got El Barzon at Livernois and Michigan, which is the collision of a Mexican and Italian family into a restaurant. There's also a few other noteworthy Italian restaurants within the city limits, I can't remember the name, but there's one at almost the Detroit-Dearborn border that is quite famous. Haven't been there since I was a kid.

[Tex?Il?]

[quote=RingWalk;20334428]Comapred to other big cities there's not that strong of an Italian presence. Yes some suburbs have a higher concentration of Italians than others and some very, very distant remnants of Italian culture in the form of sandwich shops and the like, but compared to Chicago or especially cities on the East Coast, virtually nothing. Even Chicago's Little Italy neighborhoods are nothing to write home about these days.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I think people tend to overestimate Chicagos Italian heritage. Obviously it did have a large Italian presence, but it was nothing like what you had/have along the northeast corridor from Philly through Jersey, NYC up to Boston.

Chicagos ethnic mix, despite its overall size, reflected that of other cities of the industrial midwest.

Germans outnumbered Irish (despite Chicagos Irish political heritage, German ancestry is greater, its just that they are 100% assimilated/diluted) in both the Chicago metro area as well as other cities from Ohio to Missouri. Whereas on the east coast it was generally the opposite.

Also, Slavs (Poles, Czechs, especially) also outnumbered Italians from Pittsburgh through Chicago, even if there were sizeable Italian communities. On the east coast it was the opposite.

A good book to read that talks about this is: "Cities of the Heartland, The Rise and Fall of the Industrial Midwest" by Jon Teaford.

[RingWalk]

I'm sure Chicago's Italian presence couldn't compare to NYC's or probably even smaller cities like Philly but it did have for many, many years, large Italian neighborhoods in the city, from Taylor Street to Grand Avenue to Harlem Avenue to the area they used to call Little Hell, which I believe was on Goose Island, and, later, some suburbs were almost exclusively Italian, like Elmwood Park. Cabrini was actually half Italian when it opened.

But those days are mostly over although Elmwood Park probably still has a very large Italian presence--far more palpable than anything metro Detroit has. Someone on the Chicago forum said some enclaves of Bridgeport are still heavily Italian.

Chicago still has Italian festivals on Taylor Street and in other parts of the city and suburbs too.

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by RingWalk

I'm sure Chicago's Italian presence couldn't compare to NYC's or probably even smaller cities like Philly but it did have for many, many years, large Italian neighborhoods in the city, from Taylor Street to Grand Avenue to Harlem Avenue to the area they used to call Little Hell, which I believe was on Goose Island, and, later, some suburbs were almost exclusively Italian, like Elmwood Park. Cabrini was actually half Italian when it opened.

But those days are mostly over although Elmwood Park probably still has a very large Italian presence--far more palpable than anything metro Detroit has. Someone on the Chicago forum said some enclaves of Bridgeport are still heavily Italian.

Chicago still has Italian festivals on Taylor Street and in other parts of the city and suburbs too.

Yes - it still does.

There may not be anything in metro Detroit that is quite like Elmwood Park,
but when I was going to college in Michigan I knew A LOT of kids that were obviously Italian American that grew up Macomb County.

But you are right, apart from Greektown (which is largely touristy like Chicagos, and what is left of Polish Hamtramck there is little of the European ethnic neighborhoods left in metro Detroit.

Corktown really doesn't count, there a couple of Irish pubs and a couple churches that date back to when it was Irish, but its now an "urban pioneer" neighborhood. SW Detroits Mexicantown is a bona fide ethnic neighborhood as well as east Dearborn being the largest Arab community country, but those are not European.

[RingWalk]

There are not even many legitimately ethnic European neighborhoods in Chicago. Polish on the far west side and Ukranian Village--real Ukranian Village west of where the hipsters are—are it as far as I know. Of course there are the remnants of a few Italian neighobrhoods like Taylor St., Grand Ave and a couple others, and there are still some Italians (people of Italian descent, whereas the Poles and Ukrainians are mostly first generation) who live there, but not too many.

I don't think there is even one Greek resident in "Greek Town" in Detroit or that there has been since at least the 80s, if there ever was. That probably goes for Chicago too.

Metro Detroit for some reason never had the same sense of ethnic diversity as Chicago or other big cities do/did. And probably whatever it did have was lost in white flight.

As far as Corktown being Irish, I don't think it has been predominantly Irish since the 1890s. I doubt, again, there is a single person living there who is from five generations of Irish Corktowners--keeping the flame alive! If there is, someone should write a book about him or her.

[detwahDJ]

Originally Posted by Dexterguy

Hitorically did the City of Detroit ever have a real Little Italy at one time? I heard one time from one of my friends that there was a small group of Italian immigrants around the eastern market area, and is still a few remanding Italian restuarants in that area.
Where are most of the Italian-Americans in current day Metro Detroit? All I know is there is a few shops in Clinton Township. That I guess moved from the eastern market area years ago. Does anyone one else know anymore history or info on the subject?

Apparently no...
Amazon.com: Italians in Detroit (MI) (Images of America) (9780738539850): Armando Delicato: Books
The "Rat Pack" ate at Roma Cafe some years ago.

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by RingWalk

There are not even many legitimately ethnic European neighborhoods in Chicago. Polish on the far west side and Ukranian Village--real Ukranian Village west of where the hipsters are—are it as far as I know. Of course there are the remnants of a few Italian neighobrhoods like Taylor St., Grand Ave and a couple others, and there are still some Italians (people of Italian descent, whereas the Poles and Ukrainians are mostly first generation) who live there, but not too many.

I don't think there is even one Greek resident in "Greek Town" in Detroit or that there has been since at least the 80s, if there ever was. That probably goes for Chicago too.

Metro Detroit for some reason never had the same sense of ethnic diversity as Chicago or other big cities do/did. And probably whatever it did have was lost in white flight.

As far as Corktown being Irish, I don't think it has been predominantly Irish since the 1890s. I doubt, again, there is a single person living there who is from five generations of Irish Corktowners--keeping the flame alive! If there is, someone should write a book about him or her.

I think for a short time it did. I read multiple times that in the 1910s and 1920s Detroit had the highest or one of the highest % of foreign born of any city in America.

Good jobs in the auto industry attracted EVEYONE from all over the world. There is even an exhibit on this at the Detroit historic museum. In the 1st half of the 20th century, there were neighborhoods of the following:

Polish, Greek, Italian, Jewish, Belgian, Maltese, Mexican, Hungarian, French Canadian, Irish, Lebanese, Chaldean/Assyrian. It really must have been impressive.

What makes Detroit different from say Chicago, is that the period of mass immigration didn't last as long.

Detroit grew kind of slow until the begining of the 20th century and lasted until the riots of 1967 (one of the turning points). Where Chicago started booming right after the civil war. And through the rustbelt years Chicago experienced its huge Mexican influx.

Any city that remained 4th or 5th largest from the 1910s to the 1970s is certainly going to have a significant ethnic heritage. But yes, like you said the fact that everyone moved to the suburbs, and the immigration flowed slowed down to a relative crawl, so it really is the time period was shorter than other large cities.

Heck there was even supposedly a bona fide Chinatown until it was basically destroyed after the riots. Today outside the Arab and muslim communities Detroit area does not experience the major influx of immigrants compared to other cities.