If you're considering a move to metro Detroit...... (Port Huron, Garden City: appointed, for sale)

[buckrusty]

I feel compelled to throw in my $0.02.

I'm originally from the area, and I'm getting ready to move back after being gone for about 10 years. I have been looking at real estate online, and I am amazed and slightly disappointed at some extremely negative things that people have to say about the area (we won't worry about the fact that many of those people weren't from, nor have they ever been to, Detroit). So, for the record --

Metro Detroit is no better or no worse than any other big city in America. And I know this for a fact, because I've been to them all, numerous times, over the last 10 years for work.

Every big city has a downtown, a ghetto surrounding its downtown, and suburbs around the ghetto. Every single one. Period. The downtowns vary. The ghettos are not safe and you should stay out of them unless you want trouble. The suburbs are the suburbs. This is a constant in all American cities.

I live not far from DC/ Baltimore currently. I go into downtown DC and downtown Baltimore frequently and everything is fine. I have to go to hospitals in the DC/ Baltimore ghettos frequently for work and these are places that I personally wouldn't feel compelled to spend my spare time. I live in the suburbs and its quite tame.

I've spent significant time in cities like Cleveland, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Kansas City, Denver, Philly, NYC, Chicago, Memphis, New Orleans, LA, Phoenix, Miami, Atlanta, Minneapolis, etc, etc, etc, etc etc. I would say the same things about all of those cities.

Is the metro-Detroit economy a little slow right now? Yes. Are there a ton of empty, abandon buildings in certain areas of the city? Yes. Is the current mayor a putz? Yes. Is that any different than anywhere else? No.

The area's blight and poverty has been the area's one and only claim to fame over the last few years (thanks Eminem and Kid Rock and countless movies). Take it all with a grain of salt.

Truth is, there are many improvements going on, especially downtown. I was last there over Thanksgiving, and was amazed at how many new businesses, condos, bars, and people were downtown. When I left the area, downtown was virtually deserted. I'm talking empty skyscrapers. Not the case anymore. There's still a long, long way to go, but progress is progress.

Rome wasn't built in a day, and Detroit won't be re-built in a day.

That's it

[Sunvixen]

Originally Posted by buckrusty

I feel compelled to throw in my $0.02.

I'm originally from the area, and I'm getting ready to move back after being gone for about 10 years.
Metro Detroit is no better or no worse than any other big city in America. And I know this for a fact, because I've been to them all, numerous times, over the last 10 years for work.

Every big city has a downtown, a ghetto surrounding its downtown, and suburbs around the ghetto. Every single one. Period. The downtowns vary. The ghettos are not safe and you should stay out of them unless you want trouble. The suburbs are the suburbs. This is a constant in all American cities.


Is the metro-Detroit economy a little slow right now? Yes. Are there a ton of empty, abandon buildings in certain areas of the city? Yes. Is the current mayor a putz? Yes. Is that any different than anywhere else? No.


Truth is, there are many improvements going on, especially downtown. I was last there over Thanksgiving, and was amazed at how many new businesses, condos, bars, and people were downtown. When I left the area, downtown was virtually deserted. I'm talking empty skyscrapers. Not the case anymore. There's still a long, long way to go, but progress is progress.


That's it

Oh, wow, you were here last Thanksgiving, eh? I spend over 250 hours EACH WEEK IN DETROIT.

I THINK I am a bit more qualified than you to post on this subject, but whatever floats yer boat.

To say it is no better than any other city is ridiculous. Would you REALLY say that over 80%of Chicago or any other major city is a war-torn ghetto. You're basing your opinion on a few square miles of downtown! How slanted is that!? Please name another major city that has 50% of it's businesses boarded-up or burnt??


Forbes just ranked Detroit as "MOST MISERABLE CITY IN THE UNITED STATES" out of the 150 largest... so it seems they do not think "all cities" are alike.

"Imagine living in a city with the country's highest rate for violent crime and the second-highest unemployment rate....Unfortunately, this nightmare is a reality for the residents of Detroit."

Here, read the rest:
America's Most Miserable Cities - Forbes.com


Let's toss in the fact that taxes in Detroit are more than any other place in MI and you get half the services! And that's in the GOOD areas!!

Michigan has been experiencing a one-state recession for quite some time now, and all of Michigan is losing population at one of the fastest rates in the country, that includes Detroit. Yet you say Detroit's economy "is a little slow"??? It is TERRIBLY slow and doesn't look to get better any time soon...why the heck do you think people who have lived here all their lives are now moving across the country, away from their friends and families? There IS a reason!

It is true the downtown area is doing better than it was before, and if you wish to live in a small bubble, it's a nice place to be.

But when I see somebody making a thread about how much improved Detroit is and how it's coming back fast...I think the person either has a house up for sale in the area or is a realtor in disguise. Because very, very, very few people in or around Detroit would make a statement like "Detroit is no better than any other city..."

[Cato the Elder]

Welcome back, Buckrusty. Detroit needs more people who see both good and bad and in the end sees potential. Out with the old, in with the new. Hopefully, Kwame will join all those moving out who don't share a vision like yours. You will enjoy living downtown. If I was 10 years younger with no kids, I would move there in a heartbeat, and I'm a professor at U of M working in probably the most over-rated city in MI. People make a city more than anything else.

[buckrusty]

Sunvixen -

I must not have made some things clear, so let me fix that:

Most of Detroit proper is a complete and utter dump. So is most of Cleveland, St. Louis, and, imho, Chicago, etc etc etc etc. Are they quite as bad on quite as large a scale as Detroit? No.

I was just making the point that some people act like the rest of these large American cities are so beautiful and safe and wonderful and are thriving while Detroit is somehow the one major city that is rotting. It is not.

No, I would not describe 80% of any any American city with the terms "war torn." My brother during his two tours of duty in Iraq described Fallujah as "war torn." Detroit is on hard times, to be sure, but there's no war there.

Detroit's metro area, all in all, is pretty darn nice. Detroit proper, all in all, sucks pretty bad.

So Forbes doesn't like Detroit - that's ok, not many people do right now. Forbes may love Orange County, California, or Turks and Caicos, or Scottsdale, Arizona. Or maybe not. Don't know, never met him

Michigan, and Detroit's, economies are not good. This is no secret. And the sooner that everyone (pundits, politicians, and citizens) wake up and understand that those manufacturing, blue-collar jobs that left are NOT coming back (not now, not ever, never again, nope, nada - sorry), the sooner everyone moves on, the better off we will all be.

Yes, the tax rate is high. Too high. However, given the state of things, without that high tax rate, the city goes bankrupt, and then a bad situation gets worse. And, again, imho, the tax rate everywhere is too high.

Although November '07 was my last time to visit, I've been back countless times over the years. Coming back again next weekend for a friend's birthday party in Greektown, as a matter of fact.

Lastly, I can assure you that I'm not a realtor, I do not have a property for sale downtown, and, unfortunately, I don't know anyone personally who does have a property to sell downtown. I say "unfortunately" because I'm looking to buy

I'm coming back because the industry that I do work in, the industry that I worked my tail off in to succeed in, is doing OK in Michigan. I'm excited that I can get a brand new luxury condo for $300K (comparable prices here in DC would be easily upwards of $700K). I'm happy that I'm coming back when everyone else is running and hiding.

Just like America as a whole, I think Detroiters need to stop relying on their government to come save their city so much and start relying on each other. Maybe I've become a cynic since I moved to the DC area, or maybe the older I get, the more optimistic I get. All I know is that it pisses me off that only 50 short years ago, Detroit was one of the premier cities on earth, an example for the entire world of how a city can thrive. Fifty short years later, everyone has given up. Fifty years on the grand scheme of things is as short as the blink of an eye.

Thanks for the follow up - I just think that people need some perspective on certain things.

And thanks for the words of encouragement, Cato - I'm 30, single, no kids, and I really liked what I saw in downtown my last trip there. I intend to be part of the solution. No exaggeration - I was amazed at what I saw when I was in the city late last year. Hope breeds hope.

And I won't hold the fact that you're a prof at U of M against you -- can you guess what the "buck" in buckrusty stands for?

[cardwellave]

iIwish we had more people like you around BuckRusty. And truth be told, every day it seems like we are getting more people like you, who are part of the solution.

I never intend to leave Michigan. It is my home and nowhere I have gone have I loved as much as this state. Whether I stay in my hometown in metro Detroit, or move to Port Huron, or move to Mackinaw City, or anywhere across the state, I will be part of the solution and believe in where I live. Nowhere do I believe there are better people, or more hard working than in Michigan and the midwest. I lie awake some nights thinking about what I can do to improve my hometown of Garden City, and make it a thriving downtown like some other small towns in the metro area.

Long story short, we don't need more negativity in Detroit. It is a fantastic place.

[Cato the Elder]

can you guess what the "buck" in buckrusty stands for?

That you're a fan of the Pittsburgh pirates?

I just teach here and have very little athletic affinities as a MIT alumnus.

I'm a beaver. You're a beaver. We are beavers all.
And when we get together, we do the beaver call!

E to the u du dx,
E to the x, dx.
Cosine, secant, tangent, sine,
3 point 1 4 1 5 9.
Integral, radical, mu, dv
Slipstick, sliderule, MIT!

Go Tech!

[STLCardsBlues1989]

I disagree that the cities you listed are mostly dumps. I don't think most cities are mostly dumps. Most cities have bad neighborhoods, but they're usually outnumbered by good neighborhoods. Detroit's no better or worse than the others.

But maybe I'm just naive.

[nycjefftrain]

buckrusty-

Congrats on the move. I'm currently an east coaster(in NJ, NYC metro) originally from Metro Detroit. I run into people who are from here and have only lived here who hate it and want to move. The "grass is greener" mentality is everywhere. I felt this way about my boring life in Michigan in 1998 and ran somewhere else. After living my life in a few different spots, I've come to realize I did that to figure out certain things about myself as a person, not the place I was living. I agree with you 100 percent. If this was myspace, I'd give you 25 kudos....

with that being said, if anybody feels the need to leave and explore life somewhere else...go for it. It will make you all the more well-rounded.

In reference to your industry and others in the Detroit area outside of automotive, they are actually doing quite well. Since this would be considered a good news story...it's not reported(before I get yelled at, I'm in media...I know how this works) I do feel for anybody out of work. I had this happen to me in Sept. of 2005. The reason why I didn't stay out long is because of my diverse resume and flexibility. It doesn't matter where you live. If you are a one-trick pony, you will have a much tougher time finding work. And these are the people that complain the LOUDEST!!!!

[Coldjensens]

This issue is beaten to death in other posts, but what interests me is the guy who spends 250 hours a week in Detroit. Is my math wrong or is he spending more than 24 hours a day in Detroit?


Of course that poster may have difficulty with math since he or she also obviously has a very difficult time with the English language. Actually, I think that most people would agree that Detroit is no better than any other City. (The poster apparently meant to say no worse than any other city, but seems to have difficultly with the distinction between the words "better" and "worse")

There seems to be some difficulty with reading as well. Actually reading the forbes article discloses that the Forbes ratings include such things as commute time, super fund sites, and the subjective statistic "weather". This is pretty senseless. the Forbes ratings actually support the O.P.s original statement. Detroit is not that different from many major cities. New York and L.A. are right behind Detroit on the Forbes misery scale. Not a significant difference percentage wise. Change one factor a little bit and Detroit would immediately climb above many major cities.
Some people actually like having four seasons and prefer cool crips air to smog. Modifying that subjective category alone would boost Detroit out of the most miserable city spot.

As originally pointed out by the O.P. Detroit does have its problems. It is far from perfect, but most of the problems that Detroit has are the same problems faced by most of the older large Cities in the U.S. However he also correctly points out that Detroit has made amazing progress downtown in the last 15 or so years. Cities do turn around quickly. Anyone who was in New York (Manhattan) in the 1980s and has been there recently can attest to the fact that cities can make amazing turn arounds that no one would have ever believed possible during the dark times.


Detroit's biggest problem is the government and leadership that maintains a black only attitude. A perfect example was the council's decision last year to turn down block grant funds available from the federal government for charities working inthe city. the reason for turning down those funds? The charities had too many board members from outside the city (i.e. too many white people). The idiots on the council seemed to think that these board members are highly compensated (most are volunteers).
the really stupid thing is that all that money that could have come to Detroit and done good was turned down over a hate/pride issue. Pure stupidity. Until that changes, I am not sure that Detroit can fully recover.

[randomguymike]

Originally Posted by nycjefftrain

In reference to your industry and others in the Detroit area outside of automotive, they are actually doing quite well.

Your kidding, right? Have you checked out the fact that Borders has lost 66% of its value in the last year, Dominos has lost significant value, Compuware has lost 50% of its value, Quicken isn't exactly lighting things up. Pfiezer took the fast road out of town. Its hardly lollipops and puppy dogs outside of automotive.