The Current-State of Downtown Royal Oak (Detroit, Grand Rapids: best cities, 2015, apartments)

[DTWflyer]

So, I'm curious about the current-state of downtown Royal Oak.
I pose this question after reading today that Andiamo's is closing their Royal Oak restaurant over a dispute related to parking in the downtown area. I know its been in transition, yet still wildly popular. Also in my opinion, there is a big difference between what is downtown Royal Oak and the broader neighborhoods of Royal Oak and the Woodward corridor which are becoming increasingly gentrified with tear-down/rebuilt residential housing, and seeing a resurgence of families with young children. I know a hotel is going in on Main in the northern part of downtown.

So, to give some background as I'm now much closer to 40 than 30, I grew up in the area and remember what Royal Oak was in the 90s when it was more like the Ferndale of the early-00's and saw the transition from counter-culture/gay/liberal/etc. to become what for most of what was ~2000-2010 the core of Metro Detroit nightlife for twenty-somethings and the transition to the frat-party bar scene that it became. In full disclosure that was my time to participate in such scene and many friends living in rental properties around and near the downtown area.

I lived in northern Royal Oak (near 14 Mile) from 2008-2016 although really have spent very little time in the downtown area, especially after about 10pm in the past 6 years. I'm very out of the loop on the downtown RO scene.

That and now that Detroit has taken the title for the happening area and all the twenty-somethings I work with live in Downtown/Midtown/Corktown, I hear very little about Royal Oak 2018.

[Coldjensens]

I article I saw about Andiamo closing said it was because Royal Oak could no longer compete with Mid-town. I am not sure who the article was from, it just popped up on my phone.

[Jomz]

I just can't find parking in downtown Royal oak on the weekends. We go for movies/ dinner in suburbia just because it is easy to park and I don't need to worry about a ticking meter.

[Geo-Aggie]

Andiamo closed because it was overpriced, mediocre food. That's it. Having been there recently and spent close to $70 on dinner for two (one drink each), I wasn't interested in going back. There are far better dining options for $70 in Royal Oak than mediocre, chain Italian food that has a cheaper location on 14 Mile, one town over. Andiamo tried to claim parking was an issue in <this article>, where the headline photo literally has a 6 story public parking garage in the background. The reality is that there are just too many better options, and that's okay.

As for the overall scene, it's a lot of cranes and construction lately. There's the new city hall/office building debacle that created quite a rift in Royal Oak, and understandably so as this is basically subsidized development being funded by local taxes and pocketed by a private contractor. There's the giant new parking garage, which is needed, but has made the 11 Mile and Washington intersection a mess for the last 6 months. There are lots of new upscale apartments and now plans for a big downtown park/plaza area. There's quite a change going on in Royal Oak. I think this is largely driven by the relevance of Midtown/New Center/Woodbrdige and its attraction for the 20-something crowd. Downtown Royal Oak is becoming a bit... Birminghamesque, but on a much larger scale, because it's a much larger city and a larger downtown area. This is good as it becomes more of a destination for the crowd who, 10 years ago, would've probably moved to Rochester Hills or Shelby Township.

I see people in Ferndale worry that Midtown is stealing their demand for recent grads. Royal Oak worries Ferndale is stealing theirs for DINKs. Birmingham worries Royal Oak is becoming too upscale and rivaling it. Berkley worries that Clawson is become too gentrified and attracting young families who want to build big urban homes. Clawson worries Madison Heights is getting nicer and taking its place as the safe working class, small town. Madison Heights worries Hazel Park is getting all the cool, hip places on John R... on and on and... blah... Communities on the Woodward Corridor need to stop viewing each other as rivals. The whole area is doing well, from Downtown to Bloomfield Hills, lots of good is going on (just... close your eyes through Highland Park, it has a ways to go...)

The reality is that Southeast Oakland County, if it were a single community, would be larger than Grand Rapids and a lot of the good going on here is anchored by Downtown Royal Oak, which is still something people want to be close to, even if they can't afford the $750,000 homes or $2200 rents that are right there. It's aging, (most 22 year olds can't afford that and do opt for Hazel Park or New Center instead), and the various neighborhoods do still have their target demographics, but overall the area is strong and the more the communities can exist symbiotically rather than playing some fallacious zero-sum game, as has seemingly been popular in Metro Detroit for years, the better.

As a Southeast Oakland County resident myself, I love seeing Downtown Detroit's resurgence. It will only improve the whole area. Now I just want a train or BRT line that'll take me there!

Edit: Like an hour after posting this, Royal Oak's mayor fired back at Andiamo basically saying the same thing I did. <FreeP article here>

[Coldjensens]

That will be a funny lawsuit. I wish Mr. Vicari good luck in proving the Andiamo food is actually good.

Well it is good, but at excellent food prices and it is not excellent food. So perhaps Mr. Vicari's difficulty will be in proving Andiamo food is actually a good value. I worked in the Ren Cen for years and so could not avoid eating at Andiamo at times I was consistently amazed at the price for food quality and did not understand why people ate there. joe Muir was the same way only worse.

Detroit seems to have difficulty attracting really good chefs. When we moved here from California, that was the first thing we noticed. Truly good restaurants were (and are) few and far between, it was a more noticable difference than anything else, even the weather, it was striking to us.

[Geo-Aggie]

I don't know about that - there are some pretty solid restaurants in Metro Detroit, Andiamo simply isn't one of them. It's fine. It's a step above Olive Garden, I guess, but it's still cheap chain Italian sold at moderately upscale prices - nah, pass. The childish behavior of the owner only assured I'll never be eating at another one.

Articles about the quality food scene in Detroit:
6 Unexpected Cities for the Food Lover
Detroit 3rd on Zagat's list of "next hot food cities
America’s 20 Best Cities for Food Slideshow
The Hottest Restaurants in Detroit Right Now, July 2018

Like yeah - it's no NYC, Paris or Venice; nobody should be trying to make that comparison, but as far as large American metro areas with second-tier status, Detroit really holds its own and blows away the smaller and mid-sized cities I've visited.

[Coldjensens]

Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie

I don't know about that - there are some pretty solid restaurants in Metro Detroit, Andiamo simply isn't one of them. It's fine. It's a step above Olive Garden, I guess, but it's still cheap chain Italian sold at moderately upscale prices - nah, pass. The childish behavior of the owner only assured I'll never be eating at another one.

Articles about the quality food scene in Detroit:
6 Unexpected Cities for the Food Lover
Detroit 3rd on Zagat's list of "next hot food cities
America’s 20 Best Cities for Food Slideshow
The Hottest Restaurants in Detroit Right Now, July 2018

Like yeah - it's no NYC, Paris or Venice; nobody should be trying to make that comparison, but as far as large American metro areas with second-tier status, Detroit really holds its own and blows away the smaller and mid-sized cities I've visited.

You missed something here. I did not say there are no good restaurants in Detroit Metro, I said they are few and far between and they are. You are trying to argue with me by agreeing with me. Yes, the places listed in that article are mostly great places (I woudl not include Dime Store, at least not for lunch - the bread they use for their sandwiches is terrible even if the stuff inside the sandwich is great. Even downtown where there are many hundreds of restaurants and a significant number which are nicer/high end, the ones where the quality of the food, service and atmosphere matches the price are pretty scattered about and are a small percentage. Yes there are some where the price is justified and the food and service are truly outstanding, but there are more where it is not. Andiamo is a perfect example. Joe Muir Seafood was another good example. Cliff Bell's, the Whitney. . . the list of sub par pricey places is longer than the list of truly great places. For many, if not most, Metro Detroiters if you want a stable set of say ten truly great restaurants, you are going to have to reach out to about a 60 mile radius. The ones where the food quality it matched to the price (Slows for example), you have a two hour or more wait during normal eating times. This was surprising to us coming from a location where there were typically at least 20 excellent restaurants within 3 miles.

Part of that I think is because average people in Michigan do not eat out as frequently as people in California. It just isn't as much of a thing here.

Also we found the service was often indifferent to rude here. We were used to that at fast food places, but not when you are paying $50 for a meal. Again please note the word "often" not all service is indifferent or rude, some places it is excellent. However indifferent or rude seems much more common here than other places we have spent a lot of time (Southern California, San Francisco Bay area, Las Vegas, Dallas/Fort Worth, New York City, Charleston SC. Boston has quite a few places where the service is rude, but it is supposed to be rude, and they are rude in a pleasant way that is kind of fun, not an I do not care about you way - Durgin Park is a good example).

When we moved here we expected cold, rain, mosquitoes, mud, grey skies (all of which are offset by a lot of positives). But we did not expect to be searching around saying "where is the food?" Where are the great restaurants?" It has certainly improved considerably, but it is still a case of four here, then two more twenty miles away, three others 16 miles in another direction. That was the biggest surprise to us.

[Jomz]

Which are the great restaurants in Royal Oak?

[craig11152]

Originally Posted by Jomz

Which are the great restaurants in Royal Oak?

I would suggest the answer is "the ones you like".
I would suggest that what constitutes good or great food is pretty subjective.

[Coldjensens]

Originally Posted by Jomz

Which are the great restaurants in Royal Oak?

I am fond of D'Amatos, but we may have been unduly influenced because our son was playing with a jazz band there and people cheered for him - it made us happy. Food tastes better when you are happy, but still I think it was quite good.