Public Transit in Detroit

[TheProf]

In the interest of fairness and balance (where have we heard that one before?), I note that Cleveland's transit system is struggling ridership-wise/funding-wise despite having rapid transit, to wit:

https://www.cleveland.com/datacentra...-once-was.html

... that said, I strongly believe the city is much better off with rapid rail as would Detroit be if it were to build it.

[usroute10]

Originally Posted by TheProf

In the interest of fairness and balance (where have we heard that one before?), I note that Cleveland's transit system is struggling ridership-wise/funding-wise despite having rapid transit, to wit:

https://www.cleveland.com/datacentra...-once-was.html

... that said, I strongly believe the city is much better off with rapid rail as would Detroit be if it were to build it.

Is this because of:

-lack of frequency (e.g. 1/2 hour headways, stopping service at 9 pm, no weekend service)

-frequent disruption in service?

-perception of lack of safety?

-Older train cars that are broken down (this seemed to be in issue in the Bay Area BART)

-is there still emptying out of most of the areas adjacent to rapid transit stops? Therefore the # of potential riders continue to drop.

Another question. There seems to be transit oriented development taking place near the Little Italy station, but there doesn't seem to be much TOD at other stations. I am incorrect?

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by usroute10

Is this because of:

-lack of frequency (e.g. 1/2 hour headways, stopping service at 9 pm, no weekend service)

-frequent disruption in service?

-perception of lack of safety?

-Older train cars that are broken down (this seemed to be in issue in the Bay Area BART)

-is there still emptying out of most of the areas adjacent to rapid transit stops? Therefore the # of potential riders continue to drop.

Another question. There seems to be transit oriented development taking place near the Little Italy station, but there doesn't seem to be much TOD at other stations. I am incorrect?

-lack of frequency (e.g. 1/2 hour headways, stopping service at 9 pm, no weekend service)

Certainly for the bus side. Funding cuts have caused non-rush hour frequency on bus lines on major streets, with the exception of the Health Line BRT, to be no better than 30 minutes (15 to 20 min headways during rush). Crosstown feeder lines into Rapid stations, generally have 1-hour frequency during non-rush periods (up to 30 mins during rush hour).

Rail only dropped .06%, but is way down since the 80s and 90s. Most of rail's losses are as a result in the steep decline in downtown as an employment center. Downtown was a major banking and corporate headquarters district until the 80s when banks and companies either moved, were merged out of Cleveland ... or simply died... Even though downtown grown exponentially as a residential neighborhood (and some smaller companies are moving their offices into downtown, including several from the burbs, you simply can't offset the huge loss of downtown commuters.

-frequent disruption in service?

In recent years but not this past year.

-perception of lack of safety?

For some mainly white potential passengers.

-Older train cars that are broken down (this seemed to be in issue in the Bay Area BART)

RTA rail cars are old and have breakdowns, though not enough to really harm ridership. These 35+ year old cars, though, are badly in need of replacement but money isn't there. RTA has been crafting plans to seek Federal grants for this, but not much is happening at the moment.

-is there still emptying out of most of the areas adjacent to rapid transit stops? Therefore the # of potential riders continue to drop.

Actually, aside from the downtown employment loss I mention, TOD has jumped at certain stations like W. 25/Ohio City and Little Italy/University Circle and the new Van Aken District at the Blue Line terminal. Residential population is pretty stable at most stations except around the 2 outer Red Line stations in East Cleveland; a suburb that has had horrendous blight and steep population and retail losses in recent decades.

Another question. There seems to be transit oriented development taking place near the Little Italy station, but there doesn't seem to be much TOD at other stations. I am incorrect?

For the most part, yes. The TOD that exists is mainly from long ago, such as Shaker Square and the many apts there, along Van Aken, and spot places along the Red Line from the 1950s and 60s at such stops as West Park, Triskett and W. Blvd-Cuddel...

However, as I noted, W. 25/Ohio City has grown and is growing strong with the Harbor View project set to break ground in a few months: https://www.cleveland.com/business/2...r_has_gra.html

...http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2018/1...hio-citys.html
Ohio City is such a 'hot' neighborhood anyway, its usage continues on the uptick. Downtown/Tower City has been experience quite a bit of this, too.

... The aforementioned compact, still opening Van Aken District: Home - The Van Aken District | Mixed-Use Real Estate in Shaker Heights, OH

... and the Flats East Bank, where hopefully the planned high-density development, along with the other still-new phases, can juice the still anemic Waterfront Line patronage.

... and in the last decade or so, smaller TOD has sprung up at W. 65th (the new Aspen Place affordable housing apts), on Larchmere (near Shaker Square) and at some stations along the Van Aken Blue line such as Farnsleigh and Lee Road. There's also large TOD plans for E. 116, E. 105-Quincy and West Blvd-Cudell, although these are just in the talking stages. The E. 105th TOD may have more legs just because the adjacent new Opportunity Corridor roadway has recently opened a section there and there's been land clearance around the new intersection and expanded rail station.

[Coldjensens]

Well the Q line has not improved. I rode it up to WSU last week.

Still faster to walk. Absurd waits for the train to arrive. On the way home, it was making some terrible grinding noises from the wheels the entire car was vibrating. Driver did not seem to care.

[usroute10]

A new study presented to Toledo officials looked at a rail concept — dubbed the T because of its layout — that would connect Detroit, Toledo and Ann Arbor and cities in between.

If it were built, you could leave Detroit and get to Toledo in about an hour, about the same as if you drove straight down I-75, assuming you didn't run into any construction detours, rush-hour traffic, major accidents — or make any stops to top off your tank with gas.

Toledo City Councilman Chris Delaney, who has championed the study, said Wednesday that the T would not be just for "the luxury of being able to board a train." He viewed passenger rail service as a means to longer-term economic development and prosperity.

The study outlined an 86-mile rail system that would link Toledo with Monroe and Detroit Metro Airport, going north and south, and then Ann Arbor, Ypsilanti, Westland, Dearborn and Midtown Detroit going east and west.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...or/3495054002/