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He hasn't been himself for a few days. He had semi-soft stool two nights ago but seemed fine because he played like a puppy that evening. He wasn't interested in breakfast the next day, which is a first and a big deal for a hound. But he rebounded by noon and seemed fine all yesterday and last night. This morning, he had black stool. I dropped it off at the vet. We won't have the results until Thursday. He threw up his dinner tonight. He's just sleeping away. I wouldn't say lethargic since he actually does get up and go and respond to us. Outside he lies down in the grass or just sits there, but he's alert and smelling everything.
It was hard at first to figure out if it was his arthritis or something else. The black stool indicates something else. It's not bloat. His stomach is making lots of noises. Too many noises. We can hear it across the room sometimes. He is passing gas and stool. It could be parasites, an intestinal infection or a stomach ulcer from the Deramaxx. I sure it's hope not something worse. His pre-surgery blood work was fine two months ago. The also checked his blood to see how he was doing on the Deramaxx.
Earlier this year he had low potassium and high sodium or the reverse, but not enough to cause alarm.
Maybe he has idiopathic hemorrhagic gastritis? Dazzle had that and his symptoms were the same as your hound. He did get dehydrated so had IV's for a coupe days but he did get better. They put him on that special diet for a few weeks ( IB?) and weird dog he is he liked it and normally he is very fussy about his food. We will send positive thoughts for your boy! Hope he is feeling better soon!
Please stop the Deramaxx immediately. The black stool is from internal bleeding. Deramaxx is a non- steroidal anti-inflammatory drug. Like all drugs of that type it can cause severe stomach upset, ulcers, bleeding, etc. Your dog most likely has a severely messed up stomach and intestinal tract. Try giving him some liquid Peto Bismol- use the child size dose. It will give him some relief. Let his stomach rest for 24 hours. Then for 10 days - two weeks put him on a bland diet. Start off with canned pumpkin, boiled brown rice, meat baby food in a jar ( the last for a bit of protein). After a couple of days, add in boiled chicken. He'll most likely be OK in time but you have to discuss alternative methods of dealing with his arthritis. NSAID's are not going to be something you will be able to use. I'd look into any of several mixed chondrotin / glucomasine/ hyaluronic products for joint lubrication. Then I'd add in Tramadol on an as needed basis for pain.
I'm so sorry to hear this, Hopes. Thursday seems a long time to wit for stool sample results and I pray it's a simple fix. You already know all bout what the Dmaxx side effects are, so I know you won't take Mexico direction from people who aren't vets.
Maybe he has idiopathic hemorrhagic gastritis? Dazzle had that and his symptoms were the same as your hound. He did get dehydrated so had IV's for a coupe days but he did get better. They put him on that special diet for a few weeks ( IB?) and weird dog he is he liked it and normally he is very fussy about his food. We will send positive thoughts for your boy! Hope he is feeling better soon!
He is gassy. Lots of tummy noise. We can hear it from across the room. It's not distended. When he had an intestinal infection earlier in the year, he had bloody diarrhea---bright red. This is black which means it's bleeding higher in the digestive tract.
Since writing this thread, I scheduled an appointment for him tomorrow morning.
Thanks for the well wishes. We're going to get to the bottom of it.
Please stop the Deramaxx immediately. The black stool is from internal bleeding. Deramaxx is a non- steroidal anti-inflammatory drug. Like all drugs of that type it can cause severe stomach upset, ulcers, bleeding, etc. Your dog most likely has a severely messed up stomach and intestinal tract. Try giving him some liquid Peto Bismol- use the child size dose. It will give him some relief. Let his stomach rest for 24 hours. Then for 10 days - two weeks put him on a bland diet. Start off with canned pumpkin, boiled brown rice, meat baby food in a jar ( the last for a bit of protein). After a couple of days, add in boiled chicken. He'll most likely be OK in time but you have to discuss alternative methods of dealing with his arthritis. NSAID's are not going to be something you will be able to use. I'd look into any of several mixed chondrotin / glucomasine/ hyaluronic products for joint lubrication. Then I'd add in Tramadol on an as needed basis for pain.
I'm aware of the Deramaxx risks. I was aware of them before I started him on it. My Labrador was on it for quite a few years.
I gave him Gas X a little while ago. I plan to put him on a bland diet tomorrow.
I'm not happy with the glucosamine products. They didn't do anything for the Labrador.
If we can't do NSAID's, we'll have no choice but to use narcotics. There's no "as needed" about it. This is a big basset hound with arthritis in all of his knees. His legs have a lot of weight to move, just because he's a basset, not because he's overweight.
Thanks for sharing your ideas! I'll let you know what the vet says tomorrow.
He hasn't been himself for a few days. He had semi-soft stool two nights ago but seemed fine because he played like a puppy that evening. He wasn't interested in breakfast the next day, which is a first and a big deal for a hound. But he rebounded by noon and seemed fine all yesterday and last night. This morning, he had black stool. I dropped it off at the vet. We won't have the results until Thursday. He threw up his dinner tonight. He's just sleeping away. I wouldn't say lethargic since he actually does get up and go and respond to us. Outside he lies down in the grass or just sits there, but he's alert and smelling everything.
It was hard at first to figure out if it was his arthritis or something else. The black stool indicates something else. It's not bloat. His stomach is making lots of noises. Too many noises. We can hear it across the room sometimes. He is passing gas and stool. It could be parasites, an intestinal infection or a stomach ulcer from the Deramaxx. I sure it's hope not something worse. His pre-surgery blood work was fine two months ago. The also checked his blood to see how he was doing on the Deramaxx.
Earlier this year he had low potassium and high sodium or the reverse, but not enough to cause alarm.
I'm really worried about The Basset.
Is he looking like he has acid reflux? Turning his head to the side or making a grimacing face like there's saliva in there stuck or bothering him?
Sometime with GI / Ulcer ...in fact MOST times, they are bad in the morning from that crap laying around in there all night. You may want to try raising his head and shoulders above his torso so the acid doesn't reflux up. It might fly out in the morning tho. Don't be shocked if that happens.
OK well from that list the worst is the ulcer (not including the "something else".)
The ulcer is treatable, specific treatment and time consuming ....so make sure you REALLY REALLY follow the instructions to a TEE or it won't heal.
If it is, you get two antibiotics, a PPI like Nexium and the very important Carafate/Sucralfate and need to be VERY VERY VERY careful to do them right. Carafate gives a protective coating to the gi tract and binds to the ulcer material. As it heals, it breaks off into little pieces and get eliminated. While the two antibiotics treat the thing. The PPI is to inhibit the gastric acid production to minimize burning his gi tract and esophagus. He'll probably get a B12 shot, too. Hand in hand.
Sometimes you need a scope for a diagnosis but you can treat this without a real diagnosis anyway. There's a risk/benefit thing with a scope. My dog was swallowing with 70% ability before the scope and lost almost ALL swallowing ability afterwards. That's not to say he will have the same problem, tho, because mine had megaesophagus. On top of the other things.
Carafate has to be given by itself and not around food or water within two hours (READ THE PACKAGE INSERT) ....or the material will bind to the Carafate and cause a blockage. AND not heal the ulcer. I was setting my alarm at 4AM for the Carafate. Then waiting to be sure it stayed down. Then giving the acid inhibitor and antibiotics from 6AM to 8 AM then feeding after that.
I STRONGLY suggest if the vet says put him on the ID - and he will - that YOU DO IT.
Now is not the time to be a food elitist
ID was the ONLY FOOD my dog could keep down with megaesophagus, horrendous bleeding ulcer, IBD and Helicobacter Pylori bacteria. He did not survive but it was because of the megaesophagus and not being able to really tolerate the meds. ID also cured my mother's lab's IBS. Overnight.
Feel free to DM me if you get this diagnosis and are freaking out about anything along the way.
Last edited by runswithscissors; 10-29-2013 at 07:05 PM..
I'm so sorry to hear this, Hopes. Thursday seems a long time to wit for stool sample results and I pray it's a simple fix. You already know all bout what the Dmaxx side effects are, so I know you won't take Mexico direction from people who aren't vets.
I made an appointment for tomorrow with another vet at the practice. The stool results should be back tomorrow, but his regular vet isn't in until Thursday. I think it's time to switch vets at the practice since his regular vet only works part time a few evenings a week. She's great, but she doesn't have office hours to serve urgent issues very efficiently.
Thank you for your prayers. I JUST got a call from the kitten's vet (different vet) that her liver results aren't good enough to do the spay. I can't lose two pets at once!
Is he looking like he has acid reflux? Turning his head to the side or making a grimacing face like there's saliva in there stuck or bothering him?
Sometime with GI / Ulcer ...in fact MOST times, they are bad in the morning from that crap laying around in there all night. You may want to try raising his head and shoulders above his torso so the acid doesn't reflux up. It might fly out in the morning tho. Don't be shocked if that happens.
OK well from that list the worst is the ulcer (not including the "something else".)
The ulcer is treatable, specific treatment and time consuming ....so make sure you REALLY REALLY follow the instructions to a TEE or it won't heal.
If it is, you get two antibiotics, a PPI like Nexium and the very important Carafate/Sucralfate and need to be VERY VERY VERY careful to do them right. Carafate gives a protective coating to the gi tract and binds to the ulcer material. As it heals, it breaks off into little pieces and get eliminated. While the two antibiotics treat the thing. The PPI is to inhibit the gastric acids from burning his gi tract and esophagus.
Sometimes you need a scope for a diagnosis but you can treat this without a real diagnosis anyway. There's a risk/benefit thing with a scope. My dog was swallowing with 70% ability before the scope and lost almost ALL swallowing ability afterwards. That's not to say he will have the same problem, tho, because mine had megaesophagus. On top of the other things.
Carafate has to be given by itself and not around food or water within two hours (READ THE PACKAGE INSERT) ....or the material will bind to the Carafate and cause a blockage. AND not heal the ulcer. I was setting my alarm at 4AM for the Carafate. Then waiting to be sure it stayed down. Then giving the acid inhibitor and antibiotics from 6AM to 8 AM then feeding after that.
I STRONGLY suggest if the vet says put him on the ID - and he will - that YOU DO IT.
Now is not the time to be a food elitist
ID was the ONLY FOOD my dog could keep down with megaesophagus, horrendous bleeding ulcer, IBD and Helicobacter Pylori bacteria. He did not survive but it was because of the megaesophagus and not being able to really tolerate the meds. ID also cured my mother's IBS. Overnight.
Thank you for sharing what I should expect if it's an ulcer. I highly suspect it is an ulcer.
The only other thing I'm wondering about is early bloat. That's why I gave him the Gas X. It's not emergency bloat because he is vomiting (I understand with bloat they can't vomit, just try to vomit). Being a Basset, he has a tendency to get a big hard distended stomach that scares me to death. I'm always Gas X'ing him. Well, not always, but a couple times a year.
If it's an ulcer, I promise I'll follow the vet's directions perfect! Thanks!
Thank you for sharing what I should expect if it's an ulcer. I highly suspect it is an ulcer.
The only other thing I'm wondering about is early bloat. That's why I gave him the Gas X. It's not emergency bloat because he is vomiting (I understand with bloat they can't vomit, just try to vomit). Being a Basset, he has a tendency to get a big hard distended stomach that scares me to death. I'm always Gas X'ing him. Well, not always, but a couple times a year.
If it's an ulcer, I promise I'll follow the vet's directions perfect! Thanks!
I have no experience with bloat.
I remember some warnings about GasX on our board but honestly forget what they were!
If you want to peruse it, because I know you're anal like me (haha) you can join the yahoo group megaesophagus but ignore the Mega E part.
Take care! You might want to go to an internist for this if it's not a definitive DX. And of course if he keeps barfing he needs to go in asap, which I know you know. My dog got the Mega E FROM the vomiting.
Not to scare you, but I know you'd rather be prepared in advance for decision making.
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