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First, the puppy is in the crate too much. You need to scent clean the crate and the dog. Second, you need to have a system for the dog to alert you. A bell works best. During the day the puppy really shouldn't be in a crate. A dog playpen with newspaper down and a bell hung up where he can reach it. Every time you take him out to potty ring the bell with his paw, and take him out. Do not do this when you take him out to play. They are smart he should figure it out in a day or two.
Finally, I don't mean to be unkind but why did you get a border collie? What job are you training this working breed to do? I say that having had border collies for years. They need a job. One of mine had a literal paid job 3 days a week, herding geese. In addition they all worked in agility, flyball, treball, obedience work, etc. I cannot over estimate how hard it is for the typical owner to give a border collie the mental stimulation they need. They really aren't "pets" in many ways. A long walk a few times a day, and an hour of fetch twice a day is not going to cut it for the majority of these dogs.
Uh... I have three GSP's that hunt like heck 5 months of the year and the rest of the time they are companions. They hike, play in the yard and get along fine. High energy breed.
You give a border collie some excercise and some tasks and a pet owner will have a great dog.
Maybe let's not knock the owner so much on their dog. It would seem helpful advice is worth more than individual criticism.
I have a couple of thoughts I don't believe I have seen mentioned.
Are you feeding him on a regular schedule, or do you free-feed? Scheduled feeding times, as well as scheduled play times and potty breaks, might help.
Do you know anything about how he was housed before you got him? Puppies that are confined to a very small space when they are young, doing all of their eating, playing, peeing, and pooping in a small cage or kennel, often will not have the same aversion to soiling their dens as those who are given a distinct space for each activity. That doesn't mean housebreaking will be impossible, but it could mean the pup has lost some of the natural inclination to keep its sleeping area clean.
Actually, I've returned to this post to add a final thought. If you are close enough to the puppy to know when he is messing in the crate and remove him immediately to clean up, why is it necessary, at that moment, to have him in there at all? Border Collies are smart. He may be learning that peeing a little, and then a lot, is a good way to get taken out of the crate. Does he make mistakes like this when he is loose in the room with you? Again, just a thought...
In any case, 16 weeks is young, far too young to consider any aspect of his training to be a failure.
Last edited by Catgirl64; 10-18-2017 at 01:55 AM..
Uh... I have three GSP's that hunt like heck 5 months of the year and the rest of the time they are companions. They hike, play in the yard and get along fine. High energy breed.
You give a border collie some excercise and some tasks and a pet owner will have a great dog.
Maybe let's not knock the owner so much on their dog. It would seem helpful advice is worth more than individual criticism.
I have worked in border collie rescue for more than 15 yrs. the bolded has not been my experience.
Most of the dogs who come into rescue are from people who are first time BC owners, who wanted them because they have read how smart they are, and were unprepared for the realities of what living with a dog bred to have 8-12 hrs of physical and mental stimulation a day. Hopefully that is not the case here, but hearing how often they were crating (glad to hear that has already stopped) makes me highly nervous for the owners and the dog. Heck it’s in the adorable fuzz ball puppy stage, what’s going to happen when the novelty wears off?
They are entering the age where border collies can easily develop some uniquely bad/obsessiv behaviors, light chasing, spinning, etc. that are typically due to lack of stimulation. They should take a hard look at the dogs needs and their resources and make sure they match.
I have worked in border collie rescue for more than 15 yrs. the bolded has not been my experience.
Most of the dogs who come into rescue are from people who are first time BC owners, who wanted them because they have read how smart they are, and were unprepared for the realities of what living with a dog bred to have 8-12 hrs of physical and mental stimulation a day. Hopefully that is not the case here, but hearing how often they were crating (glad to hear that has already stopped) makes me highly nervous for the owners and the dog. Heck it’s in the adorable fuzz ball puppy stage, what’s going to happen when the novelty wears off?
They are entering the age where border collies can easily develop some uniquely bad/obsessiv behaviors, light chasing, spinning, etc. that are typically due to lack of stimulation. They should take a hard look at the dogs needs and their resources and make sure they match.
I'm saying why be critical of the owners choice, when all they want is help and ideas with housebreaking and crate training.
I'm saying why be critical of the owners choice, when all they want is help and ideas with housebreaking and crate training.
Because the crate training is failing because a border collie shouldn't be in a crate for that many hours a day. Additionally, if they can't keep a 16 week old puppy stimulated enough what are they going to do with the much higher demands of an older border collie?
I'd consider that subjective. Sorry. I've heard the same said about Basenji's, and German shorthair pointers- we've had (or have) 3 of each. All of which crate trained well.
You can't tell me a border collie pup is any more demanding than a GSP pup. They are both high energy, high drive. All the pups we have raised all did they same thing- play like God's fury for about an hour or two, then crash for 2-3. I work from home 3 days a week and I don't have to crate them during the hours of 10-3. All the dogs 'siesta' naturally. GSP's, Basenji's, Coonhounds- it's like they are hardwired for downtime during that part of the day. Unless of course they are working. 2-3 hours in a crate is not unusual, not cruel. 8+ on a pup? Yeah that's a little over the top....
Thirdly it was interesting to note that the dog actually liked the darn thing. Once we adopted the crate method very often our Border Collie could be found napping or simply hanging out in his crate. If he could not find a particular toy we would check in his crate and sure enough he would have a stockpile of tennis balls and bones in there. In his chewing days as a puppy, before we redirected him to Kongs, we would find all sorts of things in the crate from shoes and flip-flops to paperback books.
The best way to start Border Collie crate training is when your Border Collie is a puppy. This is ideal because your puppy does not know anything different (as long as you haven’t let it sleep on the end of your bed already, in which case it may get a little bit upset at first but don’t let this put you off). Adult dogs that have never been put in a crate may have a harder time adjusting and may show anxiety in the crate. If you are crate training a border collie that is fully grown you will need a lot more patience and need to go slowly and provide your dog with a lot of support and encouragement. However, Border Collie crate training should still be possible.
Crating a puppy or a recently adopted adult when he's unsupervised is a safety issue. Confining a Border Collie puppy to a bathroom or kitchen is both undesirable and dangerous. These pups can tear up linoleum floors, chew and dig through walls, open drawers and cabinets. Crates can be bad if they are too small or if the pup is confined too long. Crating a pup for nine hours during the day is abuse. If someone cannot let the puppy out every 2 to 3 hours for exercise and interaction, adopt an older pup or adult dog.
A crate is a haven when life gets to be too much. A crate is a haven for the dog when children get too rough with him. A crate is also a haven for us when we need time away from a dog’s antics!
The advantages of crate-training include:
When traveling with your dog: motels that allow dogs have crate requirements. Dog events, especially training clinics, are tiring---he'll need some rest. Introducing a dog to a crate for the first time while he is ill or recuperating from surgery adds undue stress. Crate the dog when other people will be in his home for repair work or cleaning.
With a pup, a small plastic crate can easily be moved around the house. Toss treats and toys into the crate and, at first, shut the door for only a few minutes. Use it to teach the pup a daily routine. The crate can be moved from beside a chair to beside a bed, to the kitchen, or to the dining room. The pup will be in and out of the crate in these different places, learning his daily routine. Caution: if the crate is used only when you leave, the pup may develop a dislike for the crate and develop a separation anxiety. Don't make a fuss about leaving or returning. A radio or TV can be left on to help him cope with being alone.
A few tips for crate training are: Do not allow him to come out if he is crying. Be strong, buy ear plugs, go out to eat, go outside do whatever you must do but do not give in. If you do your pup has learned the most important lesson of his life. He is the boss you are not. Yelling 'Shut up' over and over will teach him that 'Shut up' = BARK! Put your pup in the crate once he has had a chance to use the bathroom outside, do not expect him to be able to hold his bladder for long periods of time. If possible start out slow and introduce him to the crate easily. I suggest you put his food in the crate with the door open to start. Let him go in and out on his own a few times. Toss a toy or treat in so he will want to go inside.
Once you have shown him there is nothing to fear you can close the door and get ready for the barking. **If you got your puppy from me your puppy has already started crate training at 4 weeks of age. Yep 4 weeks. I start putting pups in crates at 4 weeks old so they learn they can take naps there and it is a safe place to be. **To get your pup to venture into the crate you can toss a toy into the crate or even a treat to get your pup to venture into the crate. Leave the crate door open and just let the pup go in and out when he wants during the day. What I suggest you do it take your pup outside to go to the bathroom, give the pup lots of time to go potty and if he does not go to the bathroom take him back inside put him in the crate for 1 hour and then take him back outside and try again. If he does go to the bathroom then allow him to play in the house with you monitored for an hour and then put him back in the crate for an hour and repeat the steps.
There seems to be a lot of information out there relative to your breed and crate training. Might I suggest you talk to a BC breeder that crate trains for some advice? Our first Basenji was started on crate training when we got her, and the breeder gave us great advice as a young, newly married couple with our first dog- a challenging breed to boot! We've used her tips ever since and have had little problems crate training our pups.
You give a border collie some excercise and some tasks and a pet owner will have a great dog.
Maybe with the mixes (and age)... but IME rarely with the young pures I've known.
(I'm glad Cheech has a fair bit of lazy black lab mixed in him too)
---
OP: Get the puppy out of the crate during the day.
(keep the door open so if HE wants to go there he can)
I second the idea for a play corral but more the need to get him outside @ 2hr intervals
and then working hard for at least a half hour -- during each day. He'll learn to go while he's out there.
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