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Excellent, good for you. I've got Toms book & highly recommend it.
I'm really fortunate to have Toms vet surgery nearby. He's so committed to a species specific diet that he sells raw meaty bones from his practice.
Can you believe that the pet food industry tried to have Toms accreditation to practice as a vet cancelled simply because of his efforts to spread the message about raw meaty bones?
My last boy was 50kg & lived to 14yo without any health issues (Apart from suspected arthritis in his old age that he cured himself by eating 12 stale cannabis cookies that I'd put in the bin) An excellent age for a large dog. 95% of his diet was raw meaty bones since he was 2yo.
My 15mo Rotti (who's already 50kg & growing) has been fed raw meaty bones since 8wo & he's a picture of health.
Hope you get as much from the book as myself & that you become another convert
Since I switched my dogs to raw their coats are incredibly thick and soft. They were already healthy, as I home cooked, but the positive changes are noticeable. Both of mine are just under 10# and I use premade raw. I am currently fostering a 4# Yorkie and will be mentioning raw to her adopters.
Though I have been told that suitable off-cuts aren't easily found in some parts of Canada & the U.S. & when they can be found, it's not cheap. Is this correct or are people who say this just using it as an excuse to feed their dogs kibble because it's convenient?
In the US, raw product faces strong regulations. Most meat processors (the folks who are the modern-day version of the big butcher shop) are REQUIRED to throw away offal like green tripe and lungs. They are prohibited from selling it or giving it away. They dye it so it is, I presume, inedible. The butchers could sell green tripe and other innards, but they have to do some sort of special complete cleaning of their work area before and after processing. I think maybe they have to have a different storage area, also. Which makes it expensive, and they don't want the bother. So I can't just walk in when they are processing a cow and take the stomachs off their hands. They could get shut down for allowing that. The raw food supplier I know does their own processing, so somehow they legally get the innards out of the human supply chain and into their pet food supply chain, where it can be sold. It's all regulations, which means you can work around them if you know the proper way, and see a profit in doing so.
Good bones are hard to find, and if you can find them, they are typically just as pricey as good meat. Raw has gotten popular enough that our local big-box pet supply store stocks raw - but it's expensive.
Through a breeder I met, who introduced me to raw feeding, I know of one raw supplier who has reasonable prices, but not cheap. They have chix/duck frames, turkey necks, and green tripe.
Because I live in a relatively rural area, I can also shop at local farm outlet stores. They sometimes have freezer damaged stuff to dispose of, and sometimes they have had an overstock of things like liver in the freezer. But liver starts out cheap at $1.39 a pound, so we keep that in stock even if I don't get it for $1.00 a pound. I can get beef neck bones from some of them as well, and I get them at a reasonable price - $1.00 a lb. But bones have become more popular for soup stock - so if I were living in a city, I would probably be paying $3-4 for that same pound of neck bones. And that would be IF I could get them.
So I think for buyers in the US, you are best off by finding somebody who specializes in raw food.
I have a warning caveat to close though - I found one supplier who had beef and chicken REAL cheap. I loved his prices, and the meat looked and smelled fine. Something raised my internal caution flags, though, so I casually asked what the guy's source was. I don't know about his chicken, but he was getting the beef from a rendering house. Which means that all that meat was from the deaders, the sick cattle, and the old dairy cows who were no longer productive. I talked to one of the farmers I buy from. His opinion of that source? Keep in mind, this man raises beef for food. He said those cattle were highly likely to be full of antibiotics and other medications. These days, getting rid of a cow can be costly, so the farmers pump them full of medicine when the cow gets real sickly. Only after trying that will they call the "knacker man". I asked him if he would feed that meat to his family if there was an emergency, and there was no source of meat. He said no.
The moral is to know where your supply company gets their stuff. I can't visit the company I still use, but they do say all their supply is human-edible quality.
I adopted my mixed breed from a rescue group 3 weeks ago. They were giving her Natural Balance Limited Ingredients dry & wet so that's what she gets for now. I worried about her being alone for 7-8 hours on my two work days so I bought her beef marrow bones; the kind we buy to add to our beef soup and I give her one of those on my work days. I have been boiling them but could I give them to her raw?
Funny, when I scooped the poop out of the back yard yesterday, I was wondering why some of the poop had turned white. Interesting.
I adopted my mixed breed from a rescue group 3 weeks ago. They were giving her Natural Balance Limited Ingredients dry & wet so that's what she gets for now. I worried about her being alone for 7-8 hours on my two work days so I bought her beef marrow bones; the kind we buy to add to our beef soup and I give her one of those on my work days. I have been boiling them but could I give them to her raw?
Funny, when I scooped the poop out of the back yard yesterday, I was wondering why some of the poop had turned white. Interesting.
Cooking bones makes them prone to splintering & are very hard for a dog to digest. Giving cooked bones is terribly dangerous, can lead to bowel obstructions or if they've splintered, can cause a lot of internal damage.
Weight bearing bones (what some call Dino bones) will often cause a dog to break a tooth trying to get at the delicious marrow inside.
There's only a couple of animals (that I'm aware) that can safely eat them; namely Tassie Devils & Hyenas, that have teeth & jaws that are capable of crunching them into small enough pieces to swallow.
A good alternative to leave with your girl would be dried pigs or cow ears. (Not to be confused with man-made rawhide which I'd never give to a dog) Or dried tendons are another good alternative.
When my Rotti was little a pigs ear would last him for days. He'd often tire himself out chewing & fall asleep with a half chewed pigs ear between his paws. Or he'd hide them behind furniture or under a bed, lol. He loves them.
Now one lasts him about 5 minutes but as he's been fed raw meaty bones since 8wo, he's got incredibly strong jaws.
You could also try one of those Kong toys that you fill with something tasty that the dog has to work to get at.
The poop turns white due to the calcium content of the bones.
Last edited by Legion777; 12-25-2017 at 03:18 PM..
In the US, raw product faces strong regulations. Most meat processors (the folks who are the modern-day version of the big butcher shop) are REQUIRED to throw away offal like green tripe and lungs. They are prohibited from selling it or giving it away. They dye it so it is, I presume, inedible. The butchers could sell green tripe and other innards, but they have to do some sort of special complete cleaning of their work area before and after processing. I think maybe they have to have a different storage area, also. Which makes it expensive, and they don't want the bother. So I can't just walk in when they are processing a cow and take the stomachs off their hands. They could get shut down for allowing that. The raw food supplier I know does their own processing, so somehow they legally get the innards out of the human supply chain and into their pet food supply chain, where it can be sold. It's all regulations, which means you can work around them if you know the proper way, and see a profit in doing so.
Good bones are hard to find, and if you can find them, they are typically just as pricey as good meat. Raw has gotten popular enough that our local big-box pet supply store stocks raw - but it's expensive.
Through a breeder I met, who introduced me to raw feeding, I know of one raw supplier who has reasonable prices, but not cheap. They have chix/duck frames, turkey necks, and green tripe.
Because I live in a relatively rural area, I can also shop at local farm outlet stores. They sometimes have freezer damaged stuff to dispose of, and sometimes they have had an overstock of things like liver in the freezer. But liver starts out cheap at $1.39 a pound, so we keep that in stock even if I don't get it for $1.00 a pound. I can get beef neck bones from some of them as well, and I get them at a reasonable price - $1.00 a lb. But bones have become more popular for soup stock - so if I were living in a city, I would probably be paying $3-4 for that same pound of neck bones. And that would be IF I could get them.
So I think for buyers in the US, you are best off by finding somebody who specializes in raw food.
I have a warning caveat to close though - I found one supplier who had beef and chicken REAL cheap. I loved his prices, and the meat looked and smelled fine. Something raised my internal caution flags, though, so I casually asked what the guy's source was. I don't know about his chicken, but he was getting the beef from a rendering house. Which means that all that meat was from the deaders, the sick cattle, and the old dairy cows who were no longer productive. I talked to one of the farmers I buy from. His opinion of that source? Keep in mind, this man raises beef for food. He said those cattle were highly likely to be full of antibiotics and other medications. These days, getting rid of a cow can be costly, so the farmers pump them full of medicine when the cow gets real sickly. Only after trying that will they call the "knacker man". I asked him if he would feed that meat to his family if there was an emergency, and there was no source of meat. He said no.
The moral is to know where your supply company gets their stuff. I can't visit the company I still use, but they do say all their supply is human-edible quality.
Thanks for explaining that. Now it makes sense.
We also have regulations but the main difference is that the pet food has to be labelled as such. The turkey necks & chicken frames that I get are fit for human consumption.
It makes me wonder how much influence that the $billion pet food industry had in the making of your regulations.
Knowing that Big Business doesn't waste a thing, I'd have thought that most of the offal would end up going to the grinders for pet food anyways?
I'm such a big believer in the benefits of a raw diet, that in your position, I'd buy a sheep or goat & have it slaughtered at a local abattoir & do the butchering myself. Or go on hunting trips for feral rabbits, pigs, goats & roo*. I'd find a way.
When I lived in the bush, we'd often come across injured roos that were hit by trucks during the night, that needed to be put out of their misery.
Rather than leaving them for the dingo's, feral cats & foxes to eat, we'd take the hind legs & give them to the elderly for pet food.
* For those who are mortified that we shoot kangaroos, here's the thing: Roos can't live far from water & in the more arid areas, were migratory following the rains.
There's more Big Reds & Western Plain Grey roos than before white man arrived. Now that there's a constant water source with farm dams & such, they can often breed to plague proportions where hordes of roos can end up starving after denuding the vegetation. It's an awful thing to witness.
In my late teens I was offered a job to keep roos off a farmers crop. As I was preparing to leave a few days later, I got a call to say don't bother coming because there was no longer a crop to protect.
A culling system was eventually introduced to keep numbers to a sustainable level.
I buy my raw from the grocery store in bulk for the most part, or straight from farmers/ Amish or 4H. It costs quite a bit, but I know how they were raised and processed.
That makes it worthwhile to me, and far more important to me that "organic" feedlot cows, or pigs.
Once or twice a year I have a cow or pig taken to the butcher. I just request everything (including RAW hog fat). They will sometimes give me free leftover organ meat during hunting season if I can be on call to pick up asap. Everyone I know will save me deer, antelope organs, tongues, etc...
Once I took in a pig to slaughter and they had thrown away the tongue and organs "by mistake". I wasn't having any of that - I was paying for it. So they collected the rest of the organs after fair for me.
The processors could make money, instead of paying to have it dumped, but they are so busy certain times of year that it isn't worth it to them.
So can I give my dog a raw beef bone? You didn't answer that question. Thanking you in advance.
IMO one should never feed a pet ANYTHING based on someone else's opinion (not even kibble), but especially on a forum. Take the information you glean and research it heavily yourself.
Raw feeding gets a bad name because people say "Just try it, it's great!" and they go on to feed it half cocked, without organ meat, or they boil the bones, or they feed chicken backs and fruit. It is crazy what people decide it appropriate.
While I believe raw feeding is best for my dogs (and cats), I don't think anyone should ever feed it without researching first.
Though I feed beef rib bones, no way would I feed a weight bearing bone (leg of any sort). I also don't feed neck bones from anything but poultry. I wouldn't feed a raw, or scalded/ boiled beef weight bearing bone for any money.
It is horrible for their teeth. A cracked tooth is a real I$$ue. I see knuckle (soup) bones for sale everywhere raw and cooked, and I do try to encourage everyone I know to avoid them.
#1 - NOT buy them
#2 - Throw away if yo do have them
Weight bearing bones (what some call Dino bones) will often cause a dog to break a tooth trying to get at the delicious marrow inside.
There's only a couple of animals (that I'm aware) that can safely eat them; namely Tassie Devils & Hyenas, that have teeth & jaws that are capable of crunching them into small enough pieces to swallow.
.
Chiluvr1228 - sorry that I wasn't clearer.
A beef weight bearing bone is what I was referring to.
I agree with Simplepeace when saying that raw beef ribs are fine but never a beef weight bearing bone.
Not only is a broken tooth expensive to repair, it's also very painful.
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