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Unions can blame themselves for that one. They've morphed in something far beyond what their original purpose was for. Unions exist to extract as much wealth as possible for themselves and their constituents from the government and private sector, rather than provide protections and a reasonable wage.
While I agree that some major unions have done huge damage, workers are fearful in unionizing on even shop and regional levels.
Without unionization, the capitalist is given unlimited leeway to divide and conquer.
And with mandatory unionization, unions can have unlimited power to leech a business or a government dry.
I think right-to-work is the way to go. Let unions exist if they want to, but joining a union should not be a condition of employment.
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Originally Posted by Randomdude
I agree as well, except, I dont believe in forcing people to work for the slave wage capitalism would assign them.
$11+ an hour is well-above minimum wage, but whatever. I don't believe in trying to manipulate the market one way or the other. No one should be forced to work anywhere, nor should anyone be forced to employ anyone with certain restrictions.
And with mandatory unionization, unions can have unlimited power to leech a business or a government dry.
I think right-to-work is the way to go. Let unions exist if they want to, but joining a union should not be a condition of employment.
"Right to work" is a misnomer. You see, the capitalist pig, in all cases, has all of the cards, and can twist the hand of the worker through economic duress. A union is the only thing that leverages that economic duress. This is the biggest reason why places like Walmart have been highly effective at union busting. Workers are fearful of any thing with the word union in it.
To bad Walmart wasnt able to strike the same fear in to Chinese workers
$11+ an hour is well-above minimum wage, but whatever. I don't believe in trying to manipulate the market one way or the other. No one should be forced to work anywhere, nor should anyone be forced to employ anyone with certain restrictions.
Here is where you screw up. People are, in fact, forced to work some where, unless they are a trust fund baby or financially independent by some other means. Most people either have no skills, or a skill that is highly duplicated to the point that there are more people possessing it then the market demands. There are more people then jobs, even during periods of "natural unemployment" as some economists buy in to. A good deal of those jobs are very low paying and low skilled jobs. Someone is going to be forced in to them, no matter how trained or skilled the work force is.
So, even assuming that the population was skilled to exactly the demands of the market, there would be millions of people forced in to worthless crap jobs that they are viewed as "replaceable" in.
These people are the most exploited on the employment spectrum.
You see, the capitalist pig, in all cases, has all of the cards, and can twist the hand of the worker through economic duress.
Yeah, it's called owning the business. If you want communism, there are other countries you can consider living in.
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A union is the only thing that leverages that economic duress. This is the biggest reason why places like Walmart have been highly effective at union busting. Workers are fearful of any thing with the word union in it.
As they should be. Unions like the UAW (http://www.buffalonews.com/2010/03/21/994692/uaw-battles-image-problem.html - broken link) and the SEIU have given unions a bad name.
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To bad Walmart wasnt able to strike the same fear in to Chinese workers
Are you saying that American workers should be treated more like Chinese workers?
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So, even assuming that the population was skilled to exactly the demands of the market, there would be millions of people forced in to worthless crap jobs that they are viewed as "replaceable" in.
These people are the most exploited on the employment spectrum.
Wow, you certainly have a cynical view of our country.
Yeah, it's called owning the business. If you want communism, there are other countries you can consider living in.
No, actually there isnt. There are a few state run capitalisms and dictatorships masquerading as communism though.
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Originally Posted by chopchop0
As they should be. Unions like the UAW (http://www.buffalonews.com/2010/03/21/994692/uaw-battles-image-problem.html - broken link) and the SEIU have given unions a bad name.
It isnt big unions that are scaring the American worker, its the active union busting techniques demonstrated by Walmart and other large employers.
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Originally Posted by chopchop0
Are you saying that American workers should be treated more like Chinese workers?
Im saying that American workers should have the balls of, and forward thinking skills of Chinese workers. Americans only think about themselves. They are too busy thinking about their own personal situation to realize that they can improve the situation of EVERYONE if they just stuck their neck out.
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Originally Posted by chopchop0
Wow, you certainly have a cynical view of our country.
Country, no. The country is just a big landmass, and its governed by a document that can be altered endlessly. The people and economic systems occupying that country are the problem.
With a administrtio that actaully says the best thign for the economy is a large number of unemployed on unemployment compsesation because they will have to spend it ;that says alot.What a plan.
With a administrtio that actaully says the best thign for the economy is a large number of unemployed on unemployment compsesation because they will have to spend it ;that says alot.What a plan.
yeah, seriously. If the current administration were in charge of getting rid of polio, they'd be investing in bigger and better iron lungs.
Social welfare doesnt have any influence on poverty, I never claimed that. Social welfare puts a floor on how far the poverty goes.
So social welfare has not influence on poverty, yet it puts a floor on how far poverty goes? Gee.....make up your mind and get back to me.
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Originally Posted by Randomdude
The industrial revolution proved that, given full reign, companies do not care about the condition of their employees....
Nobody thought companies were charities before the industrial revolution, what the industrial revolution did was create a commodity out of low-skill labor. The solution to this problem is strong labor laws, but these were not created until the 1930's. Unfortunately today we have both the labor laws and unions, when you have strong labor laws unions just end up rent seeking.
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Originally Posted by Randomdude
Jobs arent going to magically appear for these people when they are kicked off the dole. They will largely be faced with the same situation or worse that an 18 year old kid has, except, they dont have Mom and Dad to live with, and they will no longer have subsidized housing.
Jobs will appear in the same way they have been appearing for centuries. Just in case you were not aware there are far more jobs today than say 50 years ago.
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Originally Posted by Randomdude
Without it, there will be a revolution of the underclass. If you deny this, why dont you check out some great ones through history, such as the French revolution.
Those events don't show that welfare is needed in a capitalist system. These were not revolutions against capitalism, rather government. Even communist revolutions were more about political systems than capitalism.
You think social welfare helps people, but why would it? Without social welfare companies would have to pay more and/or landlords would have to decrease rents. Social welfare is just a subsidy to businesses and landowners.
I find it amusing that liberal leaning folks don't understand that many welfare programs have nothing to do with helping people, but rather transferring wealth from tax payers to big businesses.
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