Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No, we should never increase the taxes on the rich. If we do, they will move to Canada (where the ultra-rich are apparently now moving), taking with them all the jobs they created in the U.S. as a result of not paying a lot of taxes.
but they hate Canada and it's socialized medicine! haha. it was too funny on Meet the Press this weekend, watching a Republican Governor talking about how great Canada is for business right now. How they are lowering their corporate tax rates, etc. Typically, I'm being told by Republicans how Canada is such a horrible place with all it's social programs and high taxes and socialized medicine, medicine that is so horrible that they all supposedly come here for their healthcare.
but they hate Canada and it's socialized medicine! haha. it was too funny on Meet the Press this weekend, watching a Republican Governor talking about how great Canada is for business right now. How they are lowering their corporate tax rates, etc. Typically, I'm being told by Republicans how Canada is such a horrible place with all it's social programs and high taxes and socialized medicine, medicine that is so horrible that they all supposedly come here for their healthcare.
See the new thread started by Jambo: "Socialist Canada? Think Again"
I suspect that we'll now probably see some "flat taxers" come along now. The reason I oppose a flat tax is two-fold: 1. Some of the super rich do benefit from it, but professionals like myself would end up paying a lower rate and since there are a lot of us, I would still expect overall tax revenues to decline; and 2. Some tax deductions which exist are socially useful and should be kept. If the housing market is in a slump right now, I try to imagine where it would be without the mortgage interest deduction. Additionally, I think the country is better served when people own their property as opposed to renting it. The landlord/tenant relationship is generally a bad relationship. Renters do not have much of an incentive to maintain property and this is why much rental property is in poor condition. Also, I can't imagine not letting employers deduct the cost of wages of employees from their taxes. Nor, can I imagine not allowing a deduction for charitable contributions.
We'll never solve the budget problem without some increase in tax revenues. It only makes sense that those who are getting the best deal should pay more.
I think VERY few tax deductions are socially useful. I think people will always want to own homes. Not everyone, but many will want to own the place they live in. It is property, it is an asset, and people can eventually claim "its mine." I think the government needs to do absolutely nothing to encourage that. Tax deductions distort the value of goods and are just one way for a government to tinker with its people. The mortgage deduction should be phased out over a ten year period to avoid a market shock, but it needs to go.
Most deductions are just part of the government acting as a mad scientist trying to steer people and money where they think it needs to be. New deductions are created constantly because it is never right, and they always try to fix it. Instead they should try to reduce the activity spent modifying and rewarding certain behaviors.
This includes business incentives. Exxon doesn't deserve an incentive any more than corn growers. Let America see the true cost of the things they need and we'll see sensible behavior over time.
Let's consider too how unproductive and wasteful it is to do tax returns. I have a home, some investments, and three children. Using software it takes more than a weekend to do my tax return. But how confident am I that the return is right for me? Not much.
I think VERY few tax deductions are socially useful. I think people will always want to own homes. Not everyone, but many will want to own the place they live in. It is property, it is an asset, and people can eventually claim "its mine." I think the government needs to do absolutely nothing to encourage that. Tax deductions distort the value of goods and are just one way for a government to tinker with its people. The mortgage deduction should be phased out over a ten year period to avoid a market shock, but it needs to go.
Most deductions are just part of the government acting as a mad scientist trying to steer people and money where they think it needs to be. New deductions are created constantly because it is never right, and they always try to fix it. Instead they should try to reduce the activity spent modifying and rewarding certain behaviors.
This includes business incentives. Exxon doesn't deserve an incentive any more than corn growers. Let America see the true cost of the things they need and we'll see sensible behavior over time.
Let's consider too how unproductive and wasteful it is to do tax returns. I have a home, some investments, and three children. Using software it takes more than a weekend to do my tax return. But how confident am I that the return is right for me? Not much.
a weekend to do tax returns? it takes me about 30 minutes. 60 if i bought and sold more than a few stocks in the year.
i agree mostly about the tax incentives, but part of the problem is they are baked deeply into our way of life now, and it's difficult to pull them away without having dramatic effects on people.
and i also think there are certainly good disincentives in place, through the tax code. and with incentives, over the years, industries have gotten tax breaks to get started...and now, all of a sudden, people fight that when we'd actually be able to get green technology to replace the old crap. the incentives were good enough for the oil companies, but not for the solar and wind companies that would replace them.
People with very high incomes are certainly entitled to more luxuries than people with low incomes, but to lavish $20m or $50m on oneself is sinful extravagance. To balance the budget and increase the well-being of those with low incomes, we should raise the maximum tax bracket (perhaps to 60% of non-exempt income, maybe over $5m), encourage a global financial transaction tax, and perhaps implement a modest wealth tax (that only affects the very wealthy; assets under $10m would be exempt).
Some other options would be imposing higher luxury taxes on yachts, private jets, ultra-luxury cars, and luxury houses.
a weekend to do tax returns? it takes me about 30 minutes. 60 if i bought and sold more than a few stocks in the year.
i agree mostly about the tax incentives, but part of the problem is they are baked deeply into our way of life now, and it's difficult to pull them away without having dramatic effects on people.
and i also think there are certainly good disincentives in place, through the tax code. and with incentives, over the years, industries have gotten tax breaks to get started...and now, all of a sudden, people fight that when we'd actually be able to get green technology to replace the old crap. the incentives were good enough for the oil companies, but not for the solar and wind companies that would replace them.
odd world we live in.
My tax returns are not exotic. But with pretty typical investments, charitable expenses, and working through all the "are you eligible for this" questions it takes a while.
The baked deeply into our way of life is a huge problem and it needs to be undone. I don't see why you think the current state is remotely acceptable. People have grown dependent on these deductions, and they can be weaned off if done in a phased approach.
I think our government in general thinks we (the people) are just lab rats and they just tweak taxes over and over to see if they can get us to do what they want. I not only resent it - I think it is an excessive use of government power and fails to produce any meaningful improvements in our quality of life.
My tax returns are not exotic. But with pretty typical investments, charitable expenses, and working through all the "are you eligible for this" questions it takes a while.
The baked deeply into our way of life is a huge problem and it needs to be undone. I don't see why you think the current state is remotely acceptable. People have grown dependent on these deductions, and they can be weaned off if done in a phased approach.
I think our government in general thinks we (the people) are just lab rats and they just tweak taxes over and over to see if they can get us to do what they want. I not only resent it - I think it is an excessive use of government power and fails to produce any meaningful improvements in our quality of life.
well, i didn't say the current state is acceptable, it just needs to be peeled back in layers. for instance...the beast that is the mortgage interest deduction. eliminating it would then change the affordability of a house to future buyers. so i, as a homeowner who bought under the current system, purchased something based on what i can afford. now, did the deduction greatly change what i can afford? no. but eliminating that deduction will result in an impact on the price of my home in the market. so i don't believe you can just peel the bandaid off. i think you have to do it in a phased approach, which you mentioned.
i think the government, when making changes to the tax code, has the same weakness virtually anyone has....not being able to foresee the unintended consequences. sometimes they are easy to identify, but sometimes they are not. the biggest issue i have with the government and this process is that they rarely go back and evaluate, like a "post implementation review"...to see if it's working as intended, and then change it if it's found not to be. this isn't unique to government though. happens in companies as well.
a weekend to do tax returns? it takes me about 30 minutes. 60 if i bought and sold more than a few stocks in the year.
i agree mostly about the tax incentives, but part of the problem is they are baked deeply into our way of life now, and it's difficult to pull them away without having dramatic effects on people.
and i also think there are certainly good disincentives in place, through the tax code. and with incentives, over the years, industries have gotten tax breaks to get started...and now, all of a sudden, people fight that when we'd actually be able to get green technology to replace the old crap. the incentives were good enough for the oil companies, but not for the solar and wind companies that would replace them.
odd world we live in.
You're lucky. It takes me a week to do mine.... But I don't use tax software.
i do agree, we have incentives and disincentives for various reasons. the difference with government programs is that things like unemployment, social security, and medicare still have their targeted purpose, and some people abuse them - though it's a lot harder to do than people make it out to be. oftentimes in the tax code, old tax incentives exist that really don't need to anymore, or need to be changed because it's not 1917 anymore. for instance, not too long ago, the government put a stop to the practice of buying "farm equipment" and "light trucks" where someone was basically purchasing these large luxury SUVs and being able to write it off of their taxes for something that they were not.
i think there are benefits to having incentives and disincentives as a result of tax policy. but, we should look at those in the books and bring them into the new century at least.
Exactly, that was my point.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
