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Old 08-04-2011, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Central FL
1,382 posts, read 3,802,097 times
Reputation: 1198

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After the performance on Wall Street today, I'm not sure how much longer we can kick this can.

The anemic economic growth that we are seeing is funded in part by massive gov't borrowing and stimulus. (and QE2) We've been pouring lighter fluid on the coals and can't even get the dang thing to flare up.

Look how much kabuki theater we had over the debt ceiling, and the result is a "plan" that does basically nothing at all to make a dent in the deficit.

Our saving grace is we're the best looking gal in a bar full of hags.
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Old 08-04-2011, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,090,021 times
Reputation: 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovedfromFL View Post
The anemic economic growth that we are seeing is funded in part by massive gov't borrowing and stimulus. (and QE2) We've been pouring lighter fluid on the coals and can't even get the dang thing to flare up.
Really? Can you tell me what model you used to determine this? Gotta feeling you read it off some toilet paper.....
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Old 08-04-2011, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
17,531 posts, read 24,701,378 times
Reputation: 9980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin View Post
A lot of conservatives (Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glen Beck, etc) think that if we drastically cut spending it those dollars will be replaced by the private industry investment and therefore add jobs.

I really don't see the logic in this, at all, yet this type of mentality is what is actually being push in the government by the tea party and other rank and file republicans.

For the economist on the forum, is this true? If we drastically slashed government spending, lets say 10 trillion, will that pull us out of recession and help the economic?
The results of a 1.5 trillion cut can be seen on the Stock Market today. Just imagine 10 Trillion.
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Old 08-04-2011, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,882 posts, read 25,154,836 times
Reputation: 19083
Actually, that was the result of the European markets crashing.
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Old 08-04-2011, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
1,285 posts, read 2,357,614 times
Reputation: 1007
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
And anybody that has done business with a large corporation knows that they suffer from the same problems. Its about size, not private vs public.

A few days ago I called the state to have something fixed...it took me 15 minutes. For the last 12 months I've been trying to get Verizon to charge me the correct rates, I've called 4 times and each time it takes around 30 minutes to speak with someone and they issue me a refund for money overpaid and tell me that they've "fixed it"...and yet the next bill comes in the mail and has the same issue...overcharged. But wait..its a free market right? Why don't I use someone else? Can't....they are the only provider to this building.


The idea that private business is always more efficient than government is so easily refuted its a true testament to the power of propaganda that so many people believe otherwise....

Anyhow, spending cuts right now will do little for the long term budget, they will depress the economy and as a result decrease revenue..... Its amazing that textbook macro is being ignored today....

Well said!
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Old 08-04-2011, 07:32 PM
 
Location: The Brightest City On Earth
1,282 posts, read 1,904,450 times
Reputation: 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
And anybody that has done business with a large corporation knows that they suffer from the same problems. Its about size, not private vs public.

A few days ago I called the state to have something fixed...it took me 15 minutes. For the last 12 months I've been trying to get Verizon to charge me the correct rates, I've called 4 times and each time it takes around 30 minutes to speak with someone and they issue me a refund for money overpaid and tell me that they've "fixed it"...and yet the next bill comes in the mail and has the same issue...overcharged. But wait..its a free market right? Why don't I use someone else? Can't....they are the only provider to this building. And they are not "the only provider" to your building. The FCC outlawed such exclusive contracts a few years ago. Also you can just order the internet and use Vonage or Magic Jack too.


The idea that private business is always more efficient than government is so easily refuted its a true testament to the power of propaganda that so many people believe otherwise....

Anyhow, spending cuts right now will do little for the long term budget, they will depress the economy and as a result decrease revenue..... Its amazing that textbook macro is being ignored today....
Yes but one crucial difference: I am FORCED to do business with the government. I have no other choice when it comes to getting a car tag, drivers license, birth certificate and other things. I do not have to do business with Verizon Wireless (and don't BTW). In fact I used to do business with Cingular (AT&T now) and they screwed my bills up not once but every month so I quit doing business with them and went to a phone company where my bill is always the same ($40 for unlimited) and where I can get customer service if I have an issue.
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Old 08-04-2011, 08:05 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,867,563 times
Reputation: 18304
We don;'t need that steep a cut as most where lokig for abotu $ trillion over tewn eyar. The danger of gettig owrse raiting is when yield on tresures hit ^% like in spian aqnd greece then the world will go into a depressio because we can't pay our biils with disasterous cuts. Italy is in trouble and they amke the other look like a small problem. If that happens to us its a huge problem for markets.16 trillion could go to 20 trillion and keep on climbing quickly.It could get like Greece where the GDP could pay to service the debit.
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Old 08-04-2011, 08:08 PM
 
4,246 posts, read 12,027,479 times
Reputation: 3150
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
We don;'t need that steep a cut as most where lokig for abotu $ trillion over tewn eyar. The danger of gettig owrse raiting is when yield on tresures hit ^% like in spian aqnd greece then the world will go into a depressio because we can't pay our biils with disasterous cuts. Italy is in trouble and they amke the other look like a small problem. If that happens to us its a huge problem for markets.16 trillion could go to 20 trillion and keep on climbing quickly.It could get like Greece where the GDP could pay to service the debit.

Not even google can translate this.


As for the topic we don't need to cut any spending if we,

1. Bring all the troops home from every country. Meaning all troops are here in the USA protecting OUR borders and not some other countries borders that keeps defaulting on our money they owe us. Yeah, do you know how much this country loses because other countries can't pay their bills, IE US!?!?!?!

2. Legalize Marijuana and tax it. Sure you can grow it but make it a crime to grow more than 1lb at a time. Most people would rather buy it packaged up. What smokers actually grow their own tobacco?

3. End the WAR ON DRUGS once and for all.
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Old 08-04-2011, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,090,021 times
Reputation: 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas Joe View Post
Yes but one crucial difference: I am FORCED to do business with the government.
You are forced to do business with all sorts of businesses, in some cases it may be a single business (e.g., some utilities) and in other cases its a few businesses that act as a cartel.

I'm forced to use Verizon, there is no other option.

Anyhow, private businesses tend to be more efficient than government when there is active competition, otherwise private businesses tend to be worse because they have no checks and balances, at least when the government gets out of hand it has to answer to the voters.

In terms of wireless service, are you aware that Americans pay more than most other countries and have less options? Why? Because its dominated by two companies who act in unison. Is it just a crazy coincidence that both AT&T and Verizon are switching to tier pricing for bandwidth? In some industries its more profitable for companies to join hands and extract wealth from the public than it is to actively compete with each other.

Regardless, tons of research on this topic and it all shows the same thing, namely that private businesses aren't always more efficient than government run operations. Of course the guys running the show know this, that is why they propagate the "government is inefficient" myth while extracting billions from the economy.
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Old 08-04-2011, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
2,811 posts, read 5,627,270 times
Reputation: 4009
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
And anybody that has done business with a large corporation knows that they suffer from the same problems. Its about size, not private vs public.

A few days ago I called the state to have something fixed...it took me 15 minutes. For the last 12 months I've been trying to get Verizon to charge me the correct rates, I've called 4 times and each time it takes around 30 minutes to speak with someone and they issue me a refund for money overpaid and tell me that they've "fixed it"...and yet the next bill comes in the mail and has the same issue...overcharged. But wait..its a free market right? Why don't I use someone else? Can't....they are the only provider to this building.


The idea that private business is always more efficient than government is so easily refuted its a true testament to the power of propaganda that so many people believe otherwise....

Anyhow, spending cuts right now will do little for the long term budget, they will depress the economy and as a result decrease revenue..... Its amazing that textbook macro is being ignored today....
Good points! Private does not always equal better- that is one of the biggest fallacies being pushed by many politicians out there. Private industry exists to make a profit- so they aren't going to provide services at cost as we attempt to do (or often even at a loss) in the public sector- so that means the cost of whatever that service is will go up!
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