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Old 12-07-2012, 09:10 AM
 
2,479 posts, read 2,216,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post

Sorry. Although I am interested, my eyes glazed over trying to read that article. For me, if you read the heading of scholarly writings, you have gotten it. So its over, workers are being thrown overboard, and the metrics being used to determine productivity say its up but its ultimately a bad thing.

And?
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:44 AM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,553,296 times
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Read it, but sometimes academia gets a little obsessed with what they (think) they can measure -- not so much what is.

jmho. The entire thought process displayed is Corporate Drone thinking.

Comes from the 1950s-1960s Consumer Model which folks are still trying to figure out how to reapply without ever understanding it was a fake condition to keep internal economic spending up so that we would not lapse back into the Great Depression of pre-WW2.

So to the here and now. If Joe Six Pack -- the lamented folk-guy of the tale -- does not want to be part of the descending spiral to Corporate Serfdom, Joe is going to have to take care of Joe and quit trying to an "Employee" and "Consumer."

And stop giving his money away to the Top End. (e.g. buying Cigarettes, Gasoline, a New Car, Shopping at Walmart, even a 401K). ALL that money is sucked out of the community and to the Top End.

Instead Joe needs to figure how to generate local money that stays local. That is what real wealth building looks like. Has nothing to do with Education Level -- Education is a good thing, but the money only comes out higher if you are dealing in Corporate Drone salary ranges.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,872 posts, read 25,187,651 times
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Right, so anyone who graduated from high school and went on for additional education is a Corporate Drone. Sign me up for the Corporate Drone package then, sir. Beats the hell out of working at McDonald's or Wal-Mart or the local mom 'n pop shop stocking shelves or whatever else requires only a high school degree, if that, and no further education or training.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:29 AM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,553,296 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Right, so anyone who graduated from high school and went on for additional education is a Corporate Drone. Sign me up for the Corporate Drone package then, sir. Beats the hell out of working at McDonald's or Wal-Mart or the local mom 'n pop shop stocking shelves or whatever else requires only a high school degree, if that, and no further education or training.
Did not read the article, right?

It is not (all) about you.

It is High School educated (only) they are making the comparison to.

Read it, come back, and we can chat. Or not.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,872 posts, read 25,187,651 times
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I have a degree but work in a field where nobody cares if you do or don't have a degree, last statistics I read fewer than 30% had an AA or above. You need a high school diploma or GED only. That's it for formal education. Private sector is all over is we're independent contractors and many work part-time only, working for the State or Federal Governments is $60-100k+ a year. Why? Because it requires years of education and training. It's just not formal education or training. California being California requires a government sanctioned license, but the federal government and most states do not. My next door neighbor is a sheet metal worker. Again, no formal education beyond high school. Just another high school only worker.

Are there less opportunities for those without formal education? Yup. Look at how manufacturing is done. Not so many people standing on an assembly line beating things with hammers or turning things with wrenches. We have robots that do most of that now. Either get an education and become a Corporate Drone or go into something like an apprenticeship program whether formal or otherwise and end up working as a Corporate Drone/Serf/Slave-type. Or work at McDonald's or whatever else those with no job skills do. I'm not sure how they're not Corporate Drones as well. Again, sign me up for the Corporate Drone/Serf/Slave role.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:03 PM
 
57 posts, read 105,134 times
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What I always wonder is ...if the middle class dies out and more people become jobless or can afford less due to becoming lower middle class or working class....who's going to buy all those products then that the companies are producing?

What I'm saying is, don't the companies realize that it's a vicious cycle.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:51 PM
 
2,682 posts, read 4,483,252 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skadi View Post
What I always wonder is ...if the middle class dies out and more people become jobless or can afford less due to becoming lower middle class or working class....who's going to buy all those products then that the companies are producing?

What I'm saying is, don't the companies realize that it's a vicious cycle.
From what I see, the middle class prioritizes this crap they are selling to us at the expense of savings, vacations and minimizing debt. It sucks putting money away into a savings accounts and paying down your debt when all of your neighbors, friends and relatives have new ipods, cars or whatever else. So instead, we make minimum payments on our debt and go out and buy this stuff instead of putting the money in the bank. And I understand that, you work 40-50 hours a week, you want a reward for that and savings or a zero credit card balance isn't reward for everyone.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:52 PM
 
621 posts, read 658,647 times
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http://cdn-media.nationaljournal.com...4338&width=314
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
A very well written article.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistermobile View Post
Sorry. Although I am interested, my eyes glazed over trying to read that article. For me, if you read the heading of scholarly writings, you have gotten it. So its over, workers are being thrown overboard, and the metrics being used to determine productivity say its up but its ultimately a bad thing.

And?
The US is changing in a way that isn't good for the bottom 90% and really bad for the very bottom. Want to do something about it?


Normal inflation is driven by loaning out too much money. This hurts the bottom more than the top.


So would inflation driven by upping the bottom's wages hurt the top more than the bottom? It should.
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,837 posts, read 24,937,877 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skadi View Post
What I always wonder is ...if the middle class dies out and more people become jobless or can afford less due to becoming lower middle class or working class....who's going to buy all those products then that the companies are producing?

What I'm saying is, don't the companies realize that it's a vicious cycle.
The billions of potential consumers in developing nations. We account for a fraction of the total global consumer base. Obviously, no good is going to come of a reduction in Americans and Europeans ability to consume, but when corporations ship all the actual work to developing nations, what would one expect?

Just like the fledgeling consumer class, corporations are going to have to readjust. As I've continued to speculate though... More jobs are going to be brought back to this country so goods can be produced to meet market demand. When demand is unpredictable, corporations see value in reining in supply chains and avoiding overproduction, even if the costs of labor/widgets is higher. Nations across the globe are not always a viable options for many parts, products, goods, etc. Overproduction is just as bad as higher labor costs.

At the same time, people would also be surprised to see how competitive American prices have become compared to slave wage nations thanks to automated processes. If you needed 10 widgets, of course it will be expensive. If you need 50,000 of them, and you needed them by next week because of a sudden uptick in demand, America is the best option on the table. The limiting factor these days is the limited supply of plants and factories available to accommodate demand, as well as skilled/knowledgeable staff.
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,837 posts, read 24,937,877 times
Reputation: 28540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Are there less opportunities for those without formal education? Yup. Look at how manufacturing is done. Not so many people standing on an assembly line beating things with hammers or turning things with wrenches. We have robots that do most of that now. Either get an education and become a Corporate Drone or go into something like an apprenticeship program whether formal or otherwise and end up working as a Corporate Drone/Serf/Slave-type. Or work at McDonald's or whatever else those with no job skills do. I'm not sure how they're not Corporate Drones as well. Again, sign me up for the Corporate Drone/Serf/Slave role.
Apprenticeship opportunities are still available today. The culture is completely different these days though. Kids were told you're a dolt unless they go the corporate drone route. What the trades are left with are all the left overs/troubled youth who largely cannot function in trade occupations. You actually have to have the capacity to learn and reason in many trades, just like any other profession. This might explain in part why manufacturing had fallen on hard times. The work that didn't go to China demanded more frontal lobe capacity, beyond swinging a hammer 10 hours a day. If American manufacturers can't do the challenging stuff because the kids can't learn math or follow directions, it will just go somewhere else. Nobody is going to pay good money for shotty quality or work that is just wrong.

This country really shot itself in the foot with the slashing of the education budget and the destruction of the core family unit. It's nice to have smart kids going to college and broadening their horizons. We also need smart people in other occupations as well. Bringing the K-12 system back up to snuff would solve this imbalance, but I doubt that will happen. We are too far gone I'm afraid...
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