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Old 12-19-2014, 04:24 PM
 
18,548 posts, read 15,586,958 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboibob View Post
Are you implying that the lower long term capital gain tax compensates for inflation?
To a crude approximation, yes.
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Old 12-19-2014, 04:24 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,022 posts, read 2,274,221 times
Reputation: 2168
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Nah... that's just the simplistic lowest hanging fruit approach.


No we aren't. What level of responsibility that we (the collective societal we) might have
toward this population does NOT extend that far.
It may have to be though when we have a huge amount of people unemployed.
It's fair to say that the current, and only recently established approaches, to managing this
responsibility are inadequate and inefficient and on the whole counterproductive.
Upping the ante by going deeper into this model is NOT the solution.


Frankly, I'm far more concerned with not re-creating continuing waves of them
for our children and grandchildren to have the same basic discussions over.

ONE MORE TIME:
The problem today is far less about not having enough jobs for all who might want one
than it is about having far too many people available for the jobs that actually need doing.

The US is capable of providing a very nice standard or living for 200 Million; maybe even 250M.
We just don't NEED more ..let alone if they are to be 'paid' just because they exist.
I agree the problem is not having enough jobs then people available but automation is gonna make the worse. It also matter what kind of jobs these people get creating more low paying jobs that require government help is not a solution.So what do you want to do with the extra people?
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Old 12-19-2014, 04:28 PM
 
18,548 posts, read 15,586,958 times
Reputation: 16235
Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic View Post
How about this for an idea:

A federally mandated small business initiation program run by the banks.

Synopsis:

Since the banks would not exist but by the American people (read: bailout), force the banks to lend money to any American that wants to start a new company.

I would suggest a tiered system- example:

1. Tier 1- small loan of, say, 100k for any American that jumps through the minimum required hoops.
For example, a comprehensive business plan and 50 hours of focus groups.

2. Tier 2- medium loan for those Americans that have done the minimum plus generated x amount of dollars in sales. Loan amount- 500k.

Etc etc. You could have tiers all the way up to 10 million.

Any banks that refuse to participate could simply be sanctioned for the required amount; run an identical public program with the funds. (of course, no bank would do this as it would be idiotic, when they lend the money they will be able to charge interest on it)
A lot of novices could easily get in way over their head and have no way of paying back the debt. Simply having an idea and a plan is not sufficient. You have to know what you're doing and have the right human resources, and get a customer base quickly enough.

I absolutely think it is a bad idea and would end up putting people into crushing loads of debt.

Just like you see people with liberal arts degrees making 30k a year with 100k in student loan debt, you'd have the same problem - people with small businesses barely making enough to cover the bills being crushed by their $100k in (your last name) Program loan debt.
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Old 12-19-2014, 04:44 PM
 
Location: The Triad
34,090 posts, read 82,975,811 times
Reputation: 43666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Eagle View Post
I agree the problem is not having enough jobs...
Who said that? Nor me for sure.

The **problem** is having too many people.
MILLIONS and MILLIONS too many.

You really need to read more carefully.
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Old 12-19-2014, 08:18 PM
 
595 posts, read 560,568 times
Reputation: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
To a crude approximation, yes.
Why Capital Gains are taxed at a Lower Rate | Tax Foundation

Yeah i think you're right.

Maybe they can peg the long term capital gains tax to the highest federal income tax bracket.

Example:

39% Federal income tax, 29% long term capital gains tax
29% Federal income tax, 19% long term capital gains tax
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Old 12-19-2014, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Central Ohio
10,834 posts, read 14,938,291 times
Reputation: 16587
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
Yes, that is called communism. So far, still not popular in the USA, although we seem to be headed in that direction.

Communism hasn't worked particularly well.
Just because it has always failed, and caused the murder of 100 million people, is no reason not to try it again.

//Sarcasm Off

At the core of socialism and communism is the idea a certain elite knows better what is good for an individual than the individual himself.
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Old 12-19-2014, 10:26 PM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,218,833 times
Reputation: 2140
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicet4 View Post
Just because it has always failed, and caused the murder of 100 million people, is no reason not to try it again.

//Sarcasm Off

At the core of socialism and communism is the idea a certain elite knows better what is good for an individual than the individual himself.
And that's I'm democratic. That goes to show that the left is not for democracy.all this talk about democracy is just putting children to fool them until they don't listen and then they are mats with discipline and violence.
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Old 12-19-2014, 10:47 PM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,218,833 times
Reputation: 2140
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Nah... that's just the simplistic lowest hanging fruit approach.


No we aren't. What level of responsibility that we (the collective societal we) might have
toward this population does NOT extend that far.

It's fair to say that the current, and only recently established approaches, to managing this
responsibility are inadequate and inefficient and on the whole counterproductive.
Upping the ante by going deeper into this model is NOT the solution.


Frankly, I'm far more concerned with not re-creating continuing waves of them
for our children and grandchildren to have the same basic discussions over.

ONE MORE TIME:
The problem today is far less about not having enough jobs for all who might want one
than it is about having far too many people available for the jobs that actually need doing.

The US is capable of providing a very nice standard or living for 200 Million; maybe even 250M.
We just don't NEED more ..let alone if they are to be 'paid' just because they exist.
We need to encourage young people to become more independent to be able to endure hardships and to make better decisions and planning their own lives rather than being babysat by white liberals.

Anything, we need to reduce social programs, reduce social welfare, reduce this crazy mindset that somehow people have to rely on welfare.
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Old 12-19-2014, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Central Ohio
10,834 posts, read 14,938,291 times
Reputation: 16587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress View Post
And that's I'm democratic. That goes to show that the left is not for democracy.all this talk about democracy is just putting children to fool them until they don't listen and then they are mats with discipline and violence.
The idea of a democratic form of government should be abhorrent to any American.

Nowhere in the founding documents are the words democratic or democracy to be found.

Let me give you a working definition of democracy. A democracy is four wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

QUOTATION: “Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?”

“A Republic, if you can keep it.”


ATTRIBUTION: The response is attributed to BENJAMIN FRANKLIN—at the close of the Constitutional Convention of 1787, when queried as he left Independence Hall on the final day of deliberation—in the notes of Dr. James McHenry, one of Maryland’s delegates to the Convention.

McHenry’s notes were first published in The American Historical Review, vol. 11, 1906, and the anecdote on p. 618 reads: “A lady asked Dr. Franklin Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy. A republic replied the Doctor if you can keep it.” When McHenry’s notes were included in The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787, ed. Max Farrand, vol. 3, appendix A, p. 85 (1911, reprinted 1934), a footnote stated that the date this anecdote was written is uncertain.
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Old 12-19-2014, 11:09 PM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,218,833 times
Reputation: 2140
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicet4 View Post
The idea of a democratic form of government should be abhorrent to any American.

Nowhere in the founding documents are the words democratic or democracy to be found.

Let me give you a working definition of democracy. A democracy is four wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

QUOTATION: “Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?”

“A Republic, if you can keep it.”


ATTRIBUTION: The response is attributed to BENJAMIN FRANKLIN—at the close of the Constitutional Convention of 1787, when queried as he left Independence Hall on the final day of deliberation—in the notes of Dr. James McHenry, one of Maryland’s delegates to the Convention.

McHenry’s notes were first published in The American Historical Review, vol. 11, 1906, and the anecdote on p. 618 reads: “A lady asked Dr. Franklin Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy. A republic replied the Doctor if you can keep it.” When McHenry’s notes were included in The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787, ed. Max Farrand, vol. 3, appendix A, p. 85 (1911, reprinted 1934), a footnote stated that the date this anecdote was written is uncertain.
You are very correct in that we are republic not a democracy. democracy is the tyranny of the masses. And once that tyranny is established sometimes it destroys the very democracy it came from.

What's the left advocate for is like a wolf comforting a sheep that it won't eat the sheep. Just trust a benevolent wolf and you will be fine.
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