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Illegal immigration has nothing to do with economics? Please explain your position how illegal immigration has nothing to do with economics please. I am genuinely interested.
It has plenty to do, but almost all I see here are political and legal discussion. Who is discussing the real economics here?
Doesn't do a whole lot of good. I'm John Q. Smith, social security # 555-55-5555. Checks out good. Turns out that's really John Q. Smith's SSN. Just so happens the person claiming to be John Q. Smith isn't. The e-verify system would need to be enhanced to include bio-metric data.
I'll defer to you on that since I don't know enough about it. Biometric information is just one more Orwellian tactic, though.
The elites employ the same method over and over again to gain more power and control. It's called:
1. Problem: Create a problem, allow one to fester, hype a minor or non-existent problem. In this instance, it's not patrolling the borders, giving taxpayer funded benefits to illegal immigrants, etc.
2. Reaction: The public reacts and cries out "Something must be done". People get sick of the problem of illegal immigration and are willing to give up more liberties in the name of security (biometric IDs, national ID cards, etc.)
3. Solution: The solution is always the thing you wanted to implement anyway, but wouldn't get people to go along with if you hadn't created the crisis in the first place. In this case, more militarization of the border, fingerprinting, biometric info, national IDs, more checkpoints that are not right on the border, etc.
Since the Problem/Reaction/Solution process plays out over years or even decades, people don't see the larger plan, which makes them more willing to give up their rights/liberties. This pattern is applied to everything from wars, to health care policy, to border control, banking cartels, etc.
In the original Marxist rhetoric...Problem/Reaction/Solution was known as Thesis/Antithesis/Synthesis.
I believe the border being militarized is the only real option, that we could get done. However the whole not providing the children education would take much more and would be demonized by the left and they would stop anything that would come close to overturning Plyler v. Doe. We would have to take them kicking and screaming and with our court process taking the time it does it would be years before anything would happen.
We could militarize the border in a day.
I believe militarizing the border would also have a lot of people screaming. It doesn't matter what is proposed. Anything that limits legal immigration is going to have some vested interest or other screaming about it. Like so many other issues, the people are kept divided and their attention diverted so that the status quo can continue.
[SIZE=3]New Immigration Laws: Read to the bottom or you will miss the message...
1. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools.
2. All ballots will be in this nation's language.
3. All government business will be conducted in our language.
4. Non-residents will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they are here.
5. Non-citizens will NEVER be able to hold political office.
6. Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no food stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs. Any burden will be deported.
7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount at least equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.
8. If foreigners come here and buy land... options will be restricted. Certain parcels including waterfront property are reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.
9. Foreigners may have no protests; no demonstrations, no waving of a foreign flag, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or his policies. These will lead to deportation.
10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be actively hunted &, when caught, sent to jail until your deportation can be arranged. All assets will be taken from you.
Too strict ?
The above laws are current immigration laws of MEXICO ![/SIZE]
I think I liked Obama's idea of filling a moat with alligators along the boarder. Unfortunately, I soon found out he was joking. And that's about when I realized this guy was most certainly not on our side.
I can't believe people seriously believe we should have open boarders. There would be no gain for our country, but the damage would be greater than it already is. Average wages have fallen in the past 5 years. Much worse than the normal stagnation the working class has been fledgeling under. There is a direct correlation between wages and the flood of illegal immigrants. In my opinion, legalizing them will do no good. It will only give them greater accessibility to our abundance of state and federal subsidies/welfare. These people don't care how low the wages are, so long as the tax payers are footing the bulk of their living expenses. And you folks want more of this nonsense?
It's bad enough that so many Americans today require government subsidies to survive. And people are advocating introducing more of those who will both require them, and bring down the wages of citizens abroad?
I think makig it a huge fine to enploy a illegal would go along ways to stoppi gthem coming.We haven't even really tired to stop them from working illegally.
Problem is a lot of employers have no way of knowing. I use independent contractors pretty routinely. I just ask for a work sample and a W-9. If someone is illegal, I'd really have no way of knowing. They'd have to be educated and be fluent in English, especially written English. That excludes most Americans and even more immigrants, legal or otherwise.
Others do turn a blind eye. Cheap labor pool they can exploit without repercussion is hard to turn down. That's why you make them legal. Maintains the labor pool but brings it above ground and subject to labor laws, taxation, etc.
I'm sorry but that is not really true. In about 3 minutes I can teach you how to tell a fake SS card. All employers should be required to use E-Verify and require a driver’s license that matches the employees living address.
This would not catch 100% but if the fines were high enough and maybe even jail time in extreme cases, employers would go the extra mile to be sure; just the thought of getting caught would push them into avoiding illegals.
Currently there is no effort to control employment, ZERO. The employment of illegals is done openly with no fear of getting caught, jaywalking is treated more harshly. Your post just reinforces that
Illegal immigrants are net detriments to USA’s economy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willy702
What does any of this have to do with economics? Sure looks like nothing but politics to me. Isn't there already a forum for all the fearmongering over illegal immigration?
Willy702, Malloric, Tex Dav, C Delena, Andy Wire and I concur that illegal immigrants are net detriments to USA’s economy.
Illegals to some extent are certainly detrimental to our median wage which in turn reduces the middle income earners proportion of our population.
Investors and creators of new industries, methods and products (rather than simply speculators of existing enterprises’ market values are major drivers of our economy.
[Refer to the discussion thread of: http://www.city-data.com/forum/econo...count-our.html
But the middle income earners population segment has also been among the major drivers of USA’s economy].
Those illegal immigrants working “off the books” deny our governments’, (from federal down to locals), of their full tax revenues while to some extent they increase our govenments’ expenditures.
That is why I am not conducive to any consolidated immigration legislation until our government can demonstrate some reasonable extent of border security. I’m not conducive to accepting just promises.
(Refer to first post of this thread).
Respectfully, Supposn
Last edited by Supposn; 04-03-2013 at 02:29 PM..
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Illegal immigrants are net detriments to USA’s economy.
