Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-30-2014, 04:11 PM
 
Location: The Triad
34,090 posts, read 82,988,469 times
Reputation: 43666

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress View Post
If a highly educated workforce is the way to a vibrant American economy and a middle class life,
then this many over educated young adults would have jobs. But they don't.
Because that model only works when there are more jobs than people who want one.
Today... we have the very odd situation of almost 100% employment at available jobs.

Once we can figure something to do with the other 20-40 MILLION surplus people...
the rest of us will all be paid better and there will be opportunity to enter
job fields for the young and for everyone else to advance more.

Training those millions only dilutes the market value of the people already doing those jobs.
Educating them only deludes them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-30-2014, 04:59 PM
 
28,671 posts, read 18,795,274 times
Reputation: 30979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
the only reason we have an economy at all is bek many undocs are willing to come here and work their way up to a traditional trade. something distained by our kidults. america does not need 20 million more managers with general ed advanced degrees. ask anybody working at starbucks.
They're only doing what everyone has been telling them to do all their lives. Nobody is telling them about traditional trades, and if they bring up the idea of going into a trade, all their advisers steer them away.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2014, 07:44 PM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,219,231 times
Reputation: 2140
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
hindsight2020 - Thank you for a very thoughtful and interesting essay. I agree about the social approbation placed on a "trades" job in a society that seems to only values working in an office at a desk staring at numbers on a computer monitor. I took the opportunity to get a college degree after I returned form 'Nam. I regret not being able to meet the foreign language requirement for an mechanical engineering degree. I worked in an office job for the next 45 years before I retired last year. In addition to paying better than being a machine builder (machinist, welder, metalworker and electrician) the Environmental Scientist jobs provided a substantial social benefit. The only problem is these jobs required the patience for 45 years of boredom. The primary benefit was a decent pension with excellent health insurance for the rest of my life. As he said, "Mission Accomplished". A frugal retirement is not all that bad.

So what should we be doing to provide a more efficient workforce for the future? First would be a reasonably accurate assessment of the future requirements. Just how many car assemblers, mining truck drivers, oil rig roughnecks, computer programmers and computer users, middle managers, HVAC technicians, college professors, medical doctors, cops, FBI agents, CIA spies, politicians and bankers will we need in the next 10, 20 , 40 and 60 years? Once that is figured out how does the society go about providing the educations and the incentives (money) needed to get people to do these jobs.

Even more important is how do we reverse the social stratification our society has developed? A society with a massive mostly unemployed and unemployable underclass (<$20 k/yr), a relatively small working class (<$30 to 50K/yr), a management/medical/professional (<70 - 250 $k/yr) and a miniscule (<5%) plutocratic owners class ($10^6 and up/yr) class is simply going to collapse under its own inefficiency because everyone but the plutocrats has to borrow more than they can pay back to keep from slipping downward to lower social status. Eventually the plutocrats run out of money to lend.
Someone with the job you had will not get the same generous pension that you are receiving. Those pensions and benefits will be scaled back probably significantly. It's already happening.

The last paragraph you had. Where do we start. We are importing more cheaper labor from other countries. How will that turn out? I think fundamentally speaking, the two parties and the plutocrats just don't care about the working class. Both parties benefit from a large working class in different ways, and they have an interest in ensuring the large size of the working class.

We won't collapse. We will just become much more like Central America.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2014, 07:57 PM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,219,231 times
Reputation: 2140
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Considering the graduates of most Education degree programs are quite knowledgeable in the liberal arts but have no idea how to drive a nail with a hammer who is going to teach the kids the technical courses? The underlying problem is social. Even if your car repair technician or HVAC repairman is making more then a college educated English teacher the mechanic is not considered the social equal. When I was in college there was a major social difference between the Liberal Arts students destined to become teachers, lawyers and business managers and we mere engineers learning to build the world the Liberal Arts students would live in. They considered the guys that kept the place warm in the winter and cool in the summer beneath consideration. Annoying preppies.

If we are teaching folks in the manner that seems to be opposite of the society demand (far more Liberal Arts the engineers and technicians) why are some of the Libs paid far more in their future careers? If there was an actual shortage of engineers and technicians then engineers and technicians would be paid the same or more than lawyers or business managers. Is there an explanation for this discrepancy?
Engineering are in hot demand today. It's no longer true that engineers are viewed as beneath consideration.

They are the ones making decent salary with only a bachelors or masters degree. They are the popular ones in our high tech industry. Much of this is economic and technological changes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2014, 08:06 PM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,219,231 times
Reputation: 2140
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Because that model only works when there are more jobs than people who want one.
Today... we have the very odd situation of almost 100% employment at available jobs.

Once we can figure something to do with the other 20-40 MILLION surplus people...
the rest of us will all be paid better and there will be opportunity to enter
job fields for the young and for everyone else to advance more.

Training those millions only dilutes the market value of the people already doing those jobs.
Educating them only deludes them.
Tell that to the left, who are importing more unskilled laborers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2014, 08:42 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,288 posts, read 87,431,754 times
Reputation: 55562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
They're only doing what everyone has been telling them to do all their lives. Nobody is telling them about traditional trades, and if they bring up the idea of going into a trade, all their advisers steer them away.
i learned long ago the advisors are there to fill empty class seats not to get you a job. for most kids a traditional trade and a ticket to dubai or saudi arabia could solve most of your problems. you want a PhD? let your employer pay for it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2014, 09:07 AM
 
1,196 posts, read 1,805,450 times
Reputation: 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
i learned long ago the advisors are there to fill empty class seats not to get you a job. for most kids a traditional trade and a ticket to dubai or saudi arabia could solve most of your problems. you want a PhD? let your employer pay for it.
Don't colleges pay for the PhD?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2014, 07:41 PM
 
244 posts, read 362,287 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
i learned long ago the advisors are there to fill empty class seats not to get you a job. for most kids a traditional trade and a ticket to dubai or saudi arabia could solve most of your problems. you want a PhD? let your employer pay for it.
Isn't the pay for the working class in Dubai absurdly low?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:43 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top