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Old 09-09-2014, 09:23 AM
 
6,706 posts, read 5,952,733 times
Reputation: 17075

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
Forgiving tax revenue is exactly the same as paying out.
No, it's not. I repeat the question: how much is it costing Nevada to host a Tesla plant?

You're side stepping the question because you have no answer. In fact, Tesla could have chosen Arizona, and then Nevada would not be gaining $1.3 billion. It would gain nothing.

Quote:
That doesn't mean I'm going to cheer because a big company has managed to avoid paying. I'd go to jail if I did the same.
What does this have to do with the price of bread? No one's avoiding anything. Tesla negotiated terms under which they can afford to build a plant in Nevada. They're not breaking any laws.
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Old 09-09-2014, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,626 posts, read 12,309,333 times
Reputation: 5233
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
No, it's not. I repeat the question: how much is it costing Nevada to host a Tesla plant?

You're side stepping the question because you have no answer. In fact, Tesla could have chosen Arizona, and then Nevada would not be gaining $1.3 billion. It would gain nothing.



What does this have to do with the price of bread? No one's avoiding anything. Tesla negotiated terms under which they can afford to build a plant in Nevada. They're not breaking any laws.
The Nevada taxpayer pays zero! All the 1.3 billion is tax breaks only.
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Old 09-09-2014, 10:56 AM
 
Location: The Carolinas
2,511 posts, read 2,821,872 times
Reputation: 7982
don't hate the player--hate the game. follow the money.
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Old 09-09-2014, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
13,561 posts, read 10,375,433 times
Reputation: 8252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
If your beef is that you are not getting to keep more of the money you earn and own, while someone else is, then attack the correct villains: government and collectivism.

However, the term "corporate welfare" is nothing but a smear. When a person earns income, that income belongs to them, not the state. When a corporation makes a profit, that money is theirs. They earned it. They own it. So when the state is forced by competition to allow a corporation to keep more of what it rightfully owns, the term for that is justice, not corporate welfare.

A tax break is not giving anything to anyone. It is allowing them to keep what is theirs.
You are ignoring the fact that corporations, like individuals, use public resources. Such as roads, utilities, educational facilities. There are also externalities created by these corporations' activities - such as pollution (particularly for manufacturing operations), waste disposal, traffic - that affects the public as a whole.

These resources have to be paid for. It would be fair to ask that the companies pay for the resources they use.

In extreme cases - when state or local governments bend over backwards with financial incentives to get companies to locate there - there has been financial impact (negative) on the governments. The best example of this was Alabama's big financial deal to get Mercedes-Benz, which caused a budget deficit and impacted their education budget.
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Old 09-09-2014, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
13,561 posts, read 10,375,433 times
Reputation: 8252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
Maybe we need to check our premises, reduce the size and scope of collectivist government, and allow all the citizens and corporations of Nevada to keep most of what they earn and own.

I love how people treat the monstrosity of statism as a metaphysical necessity: "Big government? We can't curtail it or reverse it. We just need to keep feeding it."

No, we don't.
So maybe then Tesla should build their own roads, power plant, and educational facilities. And hire their own police and fire force.
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Old 09-09-2014, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
13,561 posts, read 10,375,433 times
Reputation: 8252
Lost in all this talk about economic incentives - did anyone wonder what were the other factors helping to determine Tesla's site location? Such as logistics, for instance.

Consider that batteries are very heavy and would be best transported by rail to the final assembly plant. So Nevada (and Reno) makes a lot of sense given that it is located on a major rail line that can feed into Tesla's assembly facility in California. Maybe about a 4-5 hr travel time away.

Texas probably doesn't make a lot of sense given its relative distance from California, plus the fact that Texas motor vehicle franchising laws prohibit Tesla from selling directly to consumers, which is a big part of its business model; it might not be the real major factor for its operations but from a future marketing standpoint in the area it would be an obstacle.
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Old 09-09-2014, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,626 posts, read 12,309,333 times
Reputation: 5233
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
Lost in all this talk about economic incentives - did anyone wonder what were the other factors helping to determine Tesla's site location? Such as logistics, for instance.

Consider that batteries are very heavy and would be best transported by rail to the final assembly plant. So Nevada (and Reno) makes a lot of sense given that it is located on a major rail line that can feed into Tesla's assembly facility in California. Maybe about a 4-5 hr travel time away.

Texas probably doesn't make a lot of sense given its relative distance from California, plus the fact that Texas motor vehicle franchising laws prohibit Tesla from selling directly to consumers, which is a big part of its business model; it might not be the real major factor for its operations but from a future marketing standpoint in the area it would be an obstacle.
Keep in mind that the plan is to sell world, and nationwide, and not just for Tesla vehicles.
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Old 09-09-2014, 12:25 PM
 
6,706 posts, read 5,952,733 times
Reputation: 17075
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
So maybe then Tesla should build their own roads, power plant, and educational facilities. And hire their own police and fire force.
or just move to another country, which is what most manufacturers end up doing.

If they're not welcome here, there are plenty of other places to choose from.
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:47 PM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,848,148 times
Reputation: 25191
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
or just move to another country, which is what most manufacturers end up doing.

If they're not welcome here, there are plenty of other places to choose from.
Paying taxes is all of a sudden a sign of not being welcomed? If so, there are an entire class of people living in the US who are not welcomed.
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:50 PM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,848,148 times
Reputation: 25191
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
No, it's not. I repeat the question: how much is it costing Nevada to host a Tesla plant?

You're side stepping the question because you have no answer. In fact, Tesla could have chosen Arizona, and then Nevada would not be gaining $1.3 billion. It would gain nothing.



What does this have to do with the price of bread? No one's avoiding anything. Tesla negotiated terms under which they can afford to build a plant in Nevada. They're not breaking any laws.
The why tax any business if the lack of taxes is far more beneficial than having taxes?
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