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Old 12-03-2014, 10:16 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,289,826 times
Reputation: 5194

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Capitalism is not necessarily fair. History is proving that it does not always make nice with the middle class.
What we have is not capitalism, it is fascist system.
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Old 12-03-2014, 10:26 AM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,474,425 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
What we have is not capitalism, it is fascist system.
We have typical capitalism with central regulation and control. Central mandates are certainly present, but typically not so heavy handed like in Nazi Germany. I am in HC. And few other industries are so heavily and centrally controlled. I certainly don't feel like a Jew during Kristallnacht!
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Old 12-03-2014, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,170,143 times
Reputation: 21738
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
Is it possible to avoid giving up the middle-class lifestyle in America? Or not?
What is wrong with the 1970s Middle Class Life-Style?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DataWarehouse View Post
You are saying that 17 trillion of debt does not cause the inflation ?
It doesn't, only because the US Dollar is one of the de facto international reserve currencies and a de facto international currency of trade (at least for a while longer).

You can't look solely at GDP, you have to look at GDP + the total number US Dollar denominated transactions globally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
....taxpayers don't "pay" the national debt.
Yes, they do. It appears you love to embarrass yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
"Full faith and credit" is not based on ability to pay; it is based on willingness to pay.
You continue to grotesquely misrepresent the "Full Faith & Credit" Clause for propaganda purposes.

For those who want the Truth, see Article IV Section I of the US Constitution...

Quote:
Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof.
As everyone now can plainly see, the Full Faith & Credit Clause applies only to actions between and amongst US States, and not foreign States.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
Manageable inflation is good. Inflation is economic growth.
No, Mr. Wizard.

Demand-pull Inflation is caused when Demand exceeds Supply. That means you aren't producing enough.

Cost-push Inflation is caused by regulatory taxes or fees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
We don't pay interest on the debt. It is just accounting jargon along with asset swaps in intragovernmental holdings.
Interest Expense on the Debt Outstanding

Source: US Treasury Department

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/...ir_expense.htm

Quote:
CBO’s Projection of Federal Interest Payments




Federal debt held by the public will reach about $12.8 trillion by the end of this fiscal year, an amount that equals 74 percent of the nation’s total output (gross domestic product, or GDP) this year. If current laws generally remained unchanged—the assumption that underlies CBO’s baseline projections—CBO projects that such debt would climb to $20.6 trillion, or 77 percent of GDP, in 2024.


Interest payments on that debt represent a large and rapidly growing expense of the federal government. CBO’s baseline shows net interest payments more than tripling under current law, climbing from $231 billion in 2014, or 1.3 percent of GDP, to $799 billion in 2024, or 3.0 percent of GDP—the highest ratio since 1996. The rising debt accounts for some of that increase, but much of it stems from CBO’s expectation that—largely owing to the improving economy—the average interest rate paid on that debt will more than double over the next 10 years, from 1.8 percent in 2014 to 3.9 percent in 2024. (Although interest rates are projected to rise sharply, CBO’s current projections of those rates are lower than its projections earlier in the year, reflecting the agency’s reassessment of the factors influencing real interest rates.)

Source
: Congressional Budget Office

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/45684


Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
Money is all fiat.
No, money is backed by the Goods and Services produced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
Inflation occurs when demand occurs.
Not if Supply increases.

Your graphing skills are severely lacking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
Like I said, the private sector does not grow GDP.
Yes, it does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
In the vast majority of years going back to 1920, the rate of inflation of the USD was between 1% - 5%.
Not relevant since that's aggregated.

Of that percentage, how much is due to Monetary Inflation, how much due to Interest Inflation, how much due to Wage Inflation, how much due to Demand-pull Inflation and how much as the result of Cost-push Inflation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Something will have to give.
Yes, the blood-sucking leeches will have to leech suck their own blood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Because I do not believe that capitalism itself will provide the solution.
Did you figure that out all by yourself?

Capitalism is a Property Theory.

As such, it answers the question: "Who should control Capital?"

Oh, yeah, Pukipedia is a respectable accurate unbiased source of info....not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Capitalism is not necessarily fair.
Capitalism is amoral and thus 100% fair.

What is unfair is morons who keep wanting to take things that don't belong to them....

Mircea
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Old 12-03-2014, 02:17 PM
 
18,549 posts, read 15,590,462 times
Reputation: 16235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
What is wrong with the 1970s Middle Class Life-Style?
Nothing, really, it's just that a lot of people forget that having a 2,000 sqft house and one car for everyone over 16 is not a necessity ...
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Old 12-04-2014, 06:23 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,289,826 times
Reputation: 5194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
We have typical capitalism with central regulation and control. Central mandates are certainly present, but typically not so heavy handed like in Nazi Germany. I am in HC. And few other industries are so heavily and centrally controlled. I certainly don't feel like a Jew during Kristallnacht!
We have a fascist system in which corporations own government and use the government to stifle and eliminate competition by way of regulations. Our system is as far from free trade economy as any communist system. The financial industry writes the regulations for their industry, just as the energy sector, the pharmaceutical industry etc.
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Old 12-04-2014, 09:09 PM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,474,425 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
We have a fascist system in which corporations own government and use the government to stifle and eliminate competition by way of regulations. Our system is as far from free trade economy as any communist system. The financial industry writes the regulations for their industry, just as the energy sector, the pharmaceutical industry etc.
Well I'd tell you to go to Zimbabwe or check out Russia and see how relatively free our markets are. No where are they totally laizzes faire. I'm sure I spelled it wrong. But America still has the best opportunities, and why so many come here for that opportunity.
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Old 01-06-2015, 11:25 PM
 
Location: Iowa
190 posts, read 192,680 times
Reputation: 385
Trillions of dollars are in the economy, moving from transaction to transaction. IIRC, the average is six transactions per year for each dollar. As people make profits from those transaction, or are paid wages from those transactions, taxes are generated. A certain amount of that money is moved overseas and defers taxes until it is repatriated. By US tax code, taxes are owed on money earned overseas, so it doesn't even avoid taxes. The government loses income when people hoard money and the economy stagnates. (Transaction velocity slows).

For the government to avoid going broke, the economy has to work. One of the worst recessions in America was when Pres. Jackson went to a strict gold standard. There wasn't enough gold thus everyone needing gold to do transactions had to pay dearly to get the gold. Predictably, gold value soared, so people quit spending because gold was appreciating so fast. the economy ceased to work. Japan is stuck in stagflation that has the same effect, but without the gold bubble. For the money supplier of much of the world to suddenly cut back to "live within its means" would have the same effect.

Austerity sounds moral, prudent, and frugal, but in the real world, governments that try to base their economy on simplistic ideologies don't work. Don't believe it? Look at unemployment in Greece or Spain. 25% unemployment! That is huge amount of labor that is not producing, not earning, and not generating taxes, but instead consuming tax money in the form of stipends and relief. Hitler got his start as a charismatic populist fueled by dire economics. The danger for world peace is that we will continue to get that type of crackpot zealots into power again.

I know that it seems so wrong for supposed debt to be so high for a government, but as long as inflation is small, the money supply is being increased in exactly the right amount.

Last edited by Devans0; 01-06-2015 at 11:35 PM..
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Old 01-07-2015, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
2,201 posts, read 1,876,676 times
Reputation: 1375
Default What are the implications of 116 trillion unfunded liabilities

If you recalculate the debt including so-called entitlements the debt is closer to 143 trillion! or half of our net worth as a nation. As the late Larry Burkett warned in his " Coming Economic Earthquake" that all the wise guys ignored believed we would if interest and spending create reverse compounding resulting in America becoming debtor nation! Welcome to a gradual outcome of becoming a 3rd world country!

Last edited by openmike; 01-07-2015 at 12:06 PM..
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Old 01-07-2015, 06:16 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,289,826 times
Reputation: 5194
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosopis View Post
One school of thought seems to say that this is no problem - the same one that thinks manageable inflation is good. Those two claims may indeed be related
Those are not schools of thought, they are schools of dreams of fantasys.
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Old 01-07-2015, 06:18 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,289,826 times
Reputation: 5194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Well I'd tell you to go to Zimbabwe or check out Russia and see how relatively free our markets are. No where are they totally laizzes faire. I'm sure I spelled it wrong. But America still has the best opportunities, and why so many come here for that opportunity.
Pointing out that we are the least worse of a bunch of criminal reptilian governments is hardly a endorsement of the status quo.
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