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In the case of my brother, the failure belongs to him and him alone. He squandered the opportunity to graduate from an Ivy League. He's so ridiculous that he constantly complains that if he had a college degree he could get the job he really wants. He, of course, fails to recognize that him getting a degree was the point of my parents shelling out for 5 1/2 years of school! He screwed around, couldn't be bothered to go to class and never graduated. It was all there for him to take advantage of and he FAILED. No the school, not my parents, not society, HIM.
College is not for everyone. Very true. But, given that he made straight As in HS, a 1600 on the SAT, was fully engaged in applying to schools, was admitted to more than one Ivy, chose which to attend, chose his own major and class schedule, it's hard to see where the school failed him instead of the other way around.
And trust me, if he gave you 5K (of my mother's money of course) to mentor him, at the end of a couple of months he'd still have nothing and you'd have a lot more gray hair. Some people cannot be saved from themselves.
Because many universities hide the 'dark side' of college life and prefer to paint the university and campus life as all that is Of Most Purity, Virginhood & Cleanliness, a lot of unsuspecting parents might not adequately warn their sons or daughters of the traps, temptations or dangers of college life. In sum: trust misplaced. That can be the case especially for parents who themselves didn't go to college and have unfounded sterile and whitewashed views of universities due to obviously-biased PR. I'm surprised how many people believe universities to be impenetrable bastions of uprightness and good morals when that more often than not is far, far from the truth.
This thread is really about socioeconomic class mobility. The data is irrefutable. If you're born to the bottom 20%, you have very slim odds of escaping. There's a lot of movement in and out of the top quintile. Most born there at least remain in the top half.
The Economist did a set of articles about this about 6 months ago. Socioeconomic class mobility in the US is now near the bottom of the first world countries. It's pretty easy to explain when you look at the way public school systems work in the US and the whole single parent problem. A child in a single parent household received an express ticket to a life in the bottom-20%. This problem needs to be addressed but it's probably not by flinging money at failed school systems. It's by insisting that all children go to school to learn. If you're a barbarian disrupting the classroom. You get segregated to a completely different campus so you don't disrupt the children who want to learn. Focus on education, not sports. Probably lengthen the school day and school year to use the schools as child care for the working class. Teach things like "American business English". I shouldn't be able to guess your socioeconomic class over the telephone. Insist on proper grammar. Insist on being able to write a coherent paragraph. Don't promote students until they have mastered the required skills at that grade level.
I view "high net worth" as top-5%, not Bill Gates. Anybody mildly above average with good work ethic and a focus on saving/investing instead of spending can get there. It's tough to achieve it for most without being married to someone at a similar income level so getting married and staying married is a big part of the puzzle.
I agree completely with your prescriptions for change.
Also, I think we do the next generations a disservice by almost demonizing trade schools. Yes, for many people, college is a pathway to the middle class, but vocational training for things not easily offshored is still a viable pathway. Skilled tradesmen including HVAC techs, licensed plumbing contractors, electricians and the like can make a good living.
I think that many times, people become wealthy because they were taught to become wealthy. They weren't brought up in the lap of luxury, but rather in white collar homes (but not exclusively) where much was invested into, and expected of the children. Kids follow in similar footsteps, in many cases, as the parents. In my family, this was the case. Three (4, depending how broad a brush you paint with) sons picked similar career paths. Two got masters degrees but all were reasonably successful. They had Dad as a sounding board. Dad didn't set them up in careers, but he sure as heck was able to guide them well in reacting to management decisions, when to pull the plug on a company and look for new work, guidance about one industry over another, etc...While he eventually left a financial legacy, his kids were already financially sound.
Being married and staying married seems to be a pretty key piece of the puzzle as well.
Because many universities hide the 'dark side' of college life and prefer to paint the university and campus life as all that is Of Most Purity, Virginhood & Cleanliness, a lot of unsuspecting parents might not adequately warn their sons or daughters of the traps, temptations or dangers of college life. In sum: trust misplaced. That can be the case especially for parents who themselves didn't go to college and have unfounded sterile and whitewashed views of universities.
Maybe you're right and the evil university was at fault for admitting him and my poor blameless brother was but a victim of their treachery. He's also been the victim of countless mean employers who fail to see the value in his being late every day or deciding to just not show up because he's tired or getting into verbal or physical altercations with customers. And he's been the victim of credit card companies, utility companies and landlords who think they have the right to insist he pay his bills. Not to mention a judge who thought his driving 25 over the speed limit while drinking was a reason to suspend his license.
The only "trap" he fell into in college (and continues to fall for to this day) is the trap of believing nothing is his fault or his responsibility. That things should be handed to him by virtue of him inhaling and exhaling and anyone who doesn't get that is just hassling him or being mean.
Class mobility only works if there is some viable means to achieve it and in today's modern society that way is typically through higher education.
Don't ignore the road less traveled. Just a couple examples I'm familiar with:
One neighbor of mine went to trade school to become a pipe fitter and licensed plumber. Fast forward 30 years and he now owns a plumbing business that focuses on residential water heater replacement. He has over 30 employees and a dozen trucks. He's built a successful business. He's a millionaire many times over.
Another neighbor of mine found himself at age 19 married with 2 young daughters. His wife abandoned them. He raised his daughters by himself, never remarrying. With no education, he landed a grunt job working for an insurance salesman. After a while, he learned enough to become an insurance salesman himself, and then started his own business selling annuities to retirees. At age 50, he now has about 50 employees and is a multimillionaire many times over.
A high school classmate of my daughter, quite gifted, was set to go to college... but Facebook made him an offer he couldn't refuse. They offered this 18 year old $125K/year to join Facebook instead of going to college. He's now mid 20s earning about a quarter million a year.
Far too many people view college as the *only* way. It isn't the only way.
Last edited by SportyandMisty; 05-27-2016 at 11:47 AM..
Nope. There's been, and currently is, real slavery in the world. What you're talking about is not slavery.
It is called wage slavery, a modification, the idea is the same - force us to work for the strategically placed 1:20,000 individuals controlling us through jobs and wages.You have no right to exist unless they can extract "value" from you. Simple.
Quote:
Understanding that our economy and the exchange of goods and services (including how people are compensated) is roughly based on things like scarcity and relative utility, i.e. value, is not slavery.
"Value" is a meaningless slogan. You cannot define it. Is there a real shortage of people willing to bancrupt a business while collecting more in the process than a working grunt would make in a life time? Really? You want to say that mushrooming compensation of master class somehow correlates with their relative "scarcity" as population almost tripled in the past 50 years? Should we all believe that managerial/owning talent is 30 times more scarce now than it was 50 years ago? Should we believe in Santa too? But if we are to assume that our economy and exchanges are based on modified coercion to a great extent, 30 fold increases make sense. They take what they can because what you gonna do about it, live under a bridge, or work more for less? An easy choice to make if you are not suicidal.
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If you want someone else to give you their money, you have to provide some value. If you want them to give you more, you have to do something that has more value. That is not slavery.
Again why would I care about my "value" in the eyes of another human being unless my (comfortable) survival depends on them using me, i.e. unless there is some sort of master-slave relationship between us? You cannot define "value" in no uncertain terms, practically speaking "value" means "because I can", because I can work you for X units, bause paying you X units is safe, that's your "value". Coercion is a key unspoken variable of "value" equations. "Value", "supply and demand" mambo jumbo are reserved mostly for the bottom layers of workers, the value of higher ups is fixed by their place in the pecking order of an organization, and abundance of people "willing" to work those spots for (much) less doesnt affect hierarchical order and mushrooming incomes they command at all.
Last edited by RememberMee; 05-27-2016 at 11:22 AM..
Don't ignore the road less traveled. Just a couple examples I'm familiar with:
One neighbor of mine went to trade school to become a pipe fitter and licensed plumber. Fast forward 20 years and he now owns a plumbing business that focuses on residential water heater replacement. He has over 30 employees and a dozen trucks. He's built a successful business. He's a millionaire many times over.
Another neighbor of mine found himself at age 19 married with 2 young daughters. His wife abandoned them. He raised his daughters by himself, never remarrying. With no education, he landed a grunt job working for an insurance salesman. After a while, he learned enough to become an insurance salesman himself, and then started his own business selling annuities to retirees. He now has about 50 employees and is a multimillionaire many times over.
A high school classmate of my daughter, quite gifted, was set to go to college... but Facebook made him an offer he couldn't refuse. They offered this 18 year old $125K/year to join Facebook instead of going to college. He's now mid 20s earning about a quarter million a year.
Far too many people view college as the *only* way. It isn't the only way.
Now, to keep rag to riches moment going 80 employees of those two outstanding individuals just need to open 80 more plumbing and geezer rip off businesses employing 80x80=6,400 people between them, then those 6,400 lucky individuals need to open 6,400 new business employing 6,400x80= 512,000 aspiring business owners. Ad infinitum. Problem solved.
Don't ignore the road less traveled. Just a couple examples I'm familiar with:
One neighbor of mine went to trade school to become a pipe fitter and licensed plumber. Fast forward 20 years and he now owns a plumbing business that focuses on residential water heater replacement. He has over 30 employees and a dozen trucks. He's built a successful business. He's a millionaire many times over.
Another neighbor of mine found himself at age 19 married with 2 young daughters. His wife abandoned them. He raised his daughters by himself, never remarrying. With no education, he landed a grunt job working for an insurance salesman. After a while, he learned enough to become an insurance salesman himself, and then started his own business selling annuities to retirees. He now has about 50 employees and is a multimillionaire many times over.
A high school classmate of my daughter, quite gifted, was set to go to college... but Facebook made him an offer he couldn't refuse. They offered this 18 year old $125K/year to join Facebook instead of going to college. He's now mid 20s earning about a quarter million a year.
Far too many people view college as the *only* way. It isn't the only way.
I agree. College is not the only way. But, for most people (unless they inherit tons of money or win the Powerball), there is an element of hard work behind their success. Sure, there's an element of luck as well. But, luck with out the hard work needed to take advantage of it is pretty worthless.
What if you can never afford it? I expect to pay more for housing over my lifetime than homeowners because they locked in their P&I payment while rents necessarily skyrocket.
What if you have a lifetime of bad choices that leads you to permanent economic failure? Should other people feel sorry for you?
Luck has something to do with positive outcomes. Being in the right place at the right time will pay off a lot better for someone with the right values, intelligence, manners etc...they've set themselves up to succeed while the malcontent slackers haven't. The slackers can toil for crummy wages or vote and protest for a living.
I think we can all agree that the slackers have more to apologize for than the successful folks.
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