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A lot of stuff like your internet & phone seem cheaper than possible. In my area internet cannot be had for less than $65 due to local monopoly and phones not much less than about $85... but those are the peanuts..
I could definitely get internet cheaper. I have ATT&T and I really feel like I should call them and negotiate the price down. But the difference between $53 and $65 a month really doesn't move the needle much anyway.
As far as phone goes. I have Metro PCS, unlimited talk & text but no data. I don't need all that extra fluff. To get the $25 a month deal, you have to go into a corporate store (a coworker told me about this). I previously had a more expensive plan with Verizon. But once again, another $50 for a fancy cell phone plan isn't going to move the needle all that much. An extra $62 in expenses between the 2 things would move the savings rate down from what? 29% to 28%? It's certainly well above the standard 10% recommendation that is considered "good" by your typical mainstream media outlets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
Are you married, kids?.
Nope to both. A DINK scenario can be great if you put two frugal people together. My neighbors downstairs share a studio apt. I'm not sure I'd want to do that, but it does show what people can do when they want to / have to. If kids were in the picture, I wouldn't be living in the Bay Area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
I used to have a budget like that and saved 30-40% of what I made but when I got married it got blown out of the water. My wife doesn't spend money frivolously at all... quite the opposite I've made her cry a few times over things I shouldn't have like buying make-up... it's just that taking care of two people is a lot more expensive than one.
I don't see where taking care of two people is a lot more expensive...certainly doesn't have to be unless there are medical issues or other extenuating circumstances. I think most of the time the issue comes down to one being a spender and the other being a saver....or thinking "we're married now, so we have to upgrade our housing". The most frustrating thing about being uber frugal (by American standards) is it's hard to find someone who shares those same values (doubly true if you're an introvert like me--as is the case for most uber frugal people). Generally speaking, two can live as cheaply as 1.8....and that's just an average. Frugal people can usually do much better.
I could definitely get internet cheaper. I have ATT&T and I really feel like I should call them and negotiate the price down. But the difference between $53 and $65 a month really doesn't move the needle much anyway.
As far as phone goes. I have Metro PCS, unlimited talk & text but no data. I don't need all that extra fluff. To get the $25 a month deal, you have to go into a corporate store (a coworker told me about this). I previously had a more expensive plan with Verizon. But once again, another $50 for a fancy cell phone plan isn't going to move the needle all that much. An extra $62 in expenses between the 2 things would move the savings rate down from what? 29% to 28%? It's certainly well above the standard 10% recommendation that is considered "good" by your typical mainstream media outlets.
Nope to both. A DINK scenario can be great if you put two frugal people together. My neighbors downstairs share a studio apt. I'm not sure I'd want to do that, but it does show what people can do when they want to / have to. If kids were in the picture, I wouldn't be living in the Bay Area.
I don't see where taking care of two people is a lot more expensive...certainly doesn't have to be unless there are medical issues or other extenuating circumstances. I think most of the time the issue comes down to one being a spender and the other being a saver....or thinking "we're married now, so we have to upgrade our housing". The most frustrating thing about being uber frugal (by American standards) is it's hard to find someone who shares those same values (doubly true if you're an introvert like me--as is the case for most uber frugal people). Generally speaking, two can live as cheaply as 1.8....and that's just an average. Frugal people can usually do much better.
If anything we've cut our unnecessary spending. Ie: Haven't bought new clothes in ages... it was why we got into a fight over a pair of jeans. Like I said - health insurance doubled, the phone plan doubled, the food bill went up about 30%, added a car & gas for it.
We actually have saved an average of about 13% of our income but it has been very difficult & both our lifestyles are worse than before we were married. I used to take trips now and then. Now I can't even see a weekend leisure trip in our future for a long time.
If anything we've cut our unnecessary spending. Ie: Haven't bought new clothes in ages... it was why we got into a fight over a pair of jeans. Like I said - health insurance doubled, the phone plan doubled, the food bill went up about 30%, added a car & gas for it.
We actually have saved an average of about 13% of our income but it has been very difficult & both our lifestyles are worse than before we were married. I used to take trips now and then. Now I can't even see a weekend leisure trip in our future for a long time.
I think part of your problem is you mentioned your wife isn't earning much (as you mentioned in another thread). I get the health insurance thing. I tend to think you could probably do something about the phone plan.
Yeah, I laugh when I read things like "disproportionate share of the collective output." Definitely a public school education there.
Indeed you make good use of mental resources by learning, whether it's formal education or trial-and-error. I admire people like Dean Kamen, who dropped out of WPI without a degree but invents devices that make life easier. He also has a really cool house. Net worth estimated somewhere between $100 million and $1 billion.
I admire Kamen too, and Steve Jobs (although he was a son of a ***** to his employees, but he made the best computers in the world), and Bill Gates - all college dropouts. But, as I remind my kids, "you're not Steve Jobs." Most people are better off getting as much education as they are capable of.
trading places was a pretty good movie.maximum wage in the nba for rookies is 4.3 million a year (it actually feels good to know that me and anthony davis have something in common; we are both middle class).
Need new glasses? English not your first language? $3 or $4 million in life savings after a lifetime of work is very different from $4.3 million *a year*.
I admire Kamen too, and Steve Jobs (although he was a son of a ***** to his employees, but he made the best computers in the world), and Bill Gates - all college dropouts. But, as I remind my kids, "you're not Steve Jobs." Most people are better off getting as much education as they are capable of.
one thing i will add is education does not have to mean schools . earning a good living is all about learning to do the things others can't or won't do for themselves .
as i always point out , our septic guy in pa. had an elementary school education but he learned to zoom right in on a business that no one wanted to do . he is making a fortune .
this conversation is basically a debate of capitalism vs socialism.
The right of a society or members of a society or free men to trade or exchange among themselves has nothing to do with "capitalism". Capitalism, socialism and communism are both grown off the tree of 'materialism' and are systems for centralization of resource control. Free exchange, trade, giving or receiving among member of a society is not capitalism, its inherent right. Because I have lemons growing on my private land and I give some to the poor and and trade some with a grocer for cash doesn't make me a capitalist. It just fails to make me a thief because I'm trading with the grocer rather than robbing him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Eagle
A economy cannot survive if everyone became the %1. If that happened no one would be there help people in stores, no one would be there to serve food in restaurants, nursing homes would not have anyone to help the elderly I could go on and on. People who think everyone should just get a better job do not understand how the economy works.
That is so not true. Maybe an economy where a 200 people handful suck the blood off and life essence off of 4 billion might no longer function. But I know of plenty of people that have lots of money that still work as real estate agents, coffee shop managers, taxi drivers, chauffeurs, etc. Not having to work doesn't mean that you just want to sit around drinking booze and BBQ-ing. I know of people that have plenty of $$$ that start restaurants or bars that create opportunities for waiters and bartenders to make $100+ a night in tips. There are probably some whose biggest fear is in Americans on a wide scale overcoming the lies about economics and spiritual principles that have poisoned American educational and business systems. It has been heavily evidence that anti-American Europeans were a primary factor in dumbing down and destroying the American education system after World War I and World War II. (Books: Closing of the American Mind; The Leipzig Connection : Paulo Lionni). Also: Underground History of American Education by John Taylor Gatto. Most of the dumbing down happened through what was posed as investment or donations to education. Through that the 'investors' were able to influence the curriculum. The main areas they 'funded' to poison was BUSINESS EDUCATION. SURPRISE!!!
Regarding competition: if you really study most industries, wealthy people that have sense work together. They aren't necessarily cutting each other's throats. Regular folk are discouraged from working together because that means competition--instead they are encouraged to cannibalize each other in Tha Hungry Games. Also that idea of working for money as an ultimate objective is a poison that injures too many people (see below).
I know of someone who started taking in lots of $$$ as young as age ~18 simply because he was aware of the principle of needs-to-be-met and set out to lawfully meet needs with high quality service. The irony is that his first minimum wage job was WORKING ON SCHOOL CAMPUS. When he went to college to appease his family he took a minimum wage job on campus. Before that he had been pulling over ~$30/hr. (that didn't include the money he was able to make by hiring someone else and paying them far more what most anyone else would pay).
So imagine going from $30/hr to $5/hr. part-time and having to pay for rent on a place that you have to share with others and filthy bathrooms and low-quality food and have to take out loans to pay for it. In sum, he found college to be full of nonsense, liars (teachers that were full of sh#t and spreading their false pet ideologies and using their jobs to get sexual favors) and drunkards so after a few years [THIS IS COLLEGE?!?! PEOPLE PAY FOR THIS!?!?!] he had enough and so he left and went on to take in $2000-$5000+ per week running at least two businesses.
Needless to say he had to pay off maybe $40K or so in student loans and he did and never looked back. Over the years he trained many people and would take them out on his jobs and pay them even though they didn't do much but he taught them how to be of service and helped them gain skills. From his lazy relatives and "friends" he gathered a lot of hatred because those kinds of people want an excuse for their misery--for them it has to be someone else rather than themselves and their narrow-minded, stingy inequitable beliefs.
But he always provided high quality service whether it was fixing concrete sidewalks or computers. He didn't buy fancy cars, gamble, go to prostitutes or do drugs. However where did he spend his money other than on the basics? Most of the money he spent was on TRAINING and BOOKS (those scary books that most people don't want anything to do with)! In his house was a vast technical library. Also, he always kept two cars in case one broke down but never took out a car note. If you saw his cars you would NEVER realize he made $5,000 per week. They weren't wrecks, they were just average (and of course he repaired his own cars).
His lazy and shady friends and relatives would pay $600/month for luxury cars and would do drugs to deal with the stress. Him? Nope. Instead he might pay $2,000 to attend a Concrete Fabrication Course or take an advanced technical course such a course in Marine (Underwater) Welding. When things got too stressful, he could ask someone to fill in for him and spend a week floating in the pool or riding his bike in the state park.
Also, when one of his relatives stole money from him, instead of shooting them or putting them in jail he laughed and Karma would have it he pulled in more than 20 times the amount they stole within a couple months.
But imagine, you're 17, 18, 19 or 20 and you go from $30/hr to making $5/hr and can hardly afford pizza or going anywhere, stuck on campus, paying for rent for a room you have to share with strangers. Why? Because you're so-called "friends" and "family" coerce you to "get an education" so that you can "get a real job" (ultimately he came to to the conclusion that they were very envious and also very stupid and wanted him to be just as stupid). A 'real job' meaning slaving for someone and getting ripped off in the process (they pay you 20% of what they should or can pay you)?
Re: Also that idea of working for money as an ultimate objective is a poison that injures too many people.
The meaning of this is that he FIRST AND FOREMOST provided service that was needed and the spiritual principles caused money (a tool for obtaining resources) and resources to flow to him. He served God and others not money and the result is that MONEY and other resources came to him. "Doing anything for money" is more like prostitution. Making money your idol is a bad idea. And people who worship money can be very dangerous.
Last edited by CaptainCommander; 05-27-2016 at 07:36 AM..
I spend about 900 more. A lot of stuff like your internet & phone seem cheaper than possible. About 200 of that is higher phone, internet, cable. We have local monopoly so there is high price floor especially for internet. If I want decent internet it only costs $30 more for cable and they significantly up the bandwidth cap. There is only 1 Nothing I can do about it. Another at least 250-350 is vehicle expense - both the wife and I have cars, but they need gas to travel the 40-50 mile commute we both have to make a few times a week so that's about $150-200. No payments but they are old, break down a few times times a year, & need frequent maintenance as old cars do, I estimate about 45 per car per month for repairs & maintenance for both when spread out over 12 months. Living closer is not an option since that would approximately double our housing cost.
Are you married, kids, pets?
I used to have a budget like that and saved 30-40% of what I made but when I got married it got blown out of the water. My wife doesn't spend money frivolously at all... quite the opposite I've made her cry a few times over things I shouldn't have like buying make-up or a new pair of jeans from Target, now she is afraid to buy anything which is probably not healthy for the marriage...
It's just that taking care of two people is a lot more expensive than one. Food for 2, health insurance for 2, phone plan doubled, etc... I married into a cat with a heart problem who needs pills, so veterinary bills. Most of what cuts into the savings are the irregular expenses. Large car repair etc... We've had to travel by air several times this year for family reasons... we could have chosen not to do those things - but then we don't see the family and we only get to see them once every few years at best. Ie: my uncle is having a retirement celebration next month... he is one of only 2 uncles... i get to see him at best once every 5 years...I could save the $500 it'll cost me to go but I may not see him again until 2020 if I go that route. Our house needed a new roof. etc...
I agree with a lot you wrote but disagree with some.
Taking care of two is more than one only when one is not working or earning much less than the other. This thread ( and my experience) shows that after getting married you save much more than being single. One house or apt instead of two, food costs and cooking are not double, wastage is less, not having two of every item whether they be in garage or kitchen or bedroom.
I disagree with the expenses for the extended family. You don't want to spend money for new clothes ( except for the jeans part) and yet you want to spend $500 for a retirement party for an uncle. Yes family is important, but marriage and spouse comes first. No point having a unhappy marriage being uber frugal and then blowing $500 on an uncle's retirement party. Send him a nice card with a token gift and give him a call. Spend the rest on your marriage.
Oregon is a beautiful state. You can always take weekend drives and try and book in inexpensive motels for a day and have great vacations. I would kill to have that kind of scenery close by. You don't need to travel thousands of miles or to Europe to have a great vacation.
The problem is that we try and justify to ourselves that these $100 and $500 we spend is not much and infrequent and needed, but over time they add up.
I don't see where taking care of two people is a lot more expensive...certainly doesn't have to be unless there are medical issues or other extenuating circumstances. I think most of the time the issue comes down to one being a spender and the other being a saver....or thinking "we're married now, so we have to upgrade our housing". The most frustrating thing about being uber frugal (by American standards) is it's hard to find someone who shares those same values (doubly true if you're an introvert like me--as is the case for most uber frugal people). Generally speaking, two can live as cheaply as 1.8....and that's just an average. Frugal people can usually do much better.
there is a big difference with 2 . for one thing medical and long term care insurance can be an additional 10-12k right off the bat .
my wifes's expenses are far more then mine , her clothes , hair , nails , make up , etc run circles around what i buy . two cars with insurance and maintenance add even more . everything we do requires two memberships or admissions . all our photography gear requires two of everything . with two come more family members who get gifts .
there is a lot that increases with two .
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