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Ive cruised through some of the responses lately and its sad to see that a some feel that income inequality is either not a thing despite all the research and evidence to show the contrary, or it is a thing and it is 100% solely because of poor personal choices. That everyone can be wealthy, or at least comfortable and/or meet the bare minimum in the current system that is in place. That is incredibly naive thinking.
For those of that view, I would encourage you to read the through this thread in its entirety starting with the original post, and the short video link therein as a start. If you watch that video and honestly read through each of the posts on this thread, come back here and tell us what you found. A lot of what is being said was already discussed. If you still believe this, Id ask you to please read/re-read post #575 on page #58 and answer those (about 9) questions for us. Many of those questions are just yes/no.
As a side note, as was mentioned a few times in this thread, social programs cost money, that money comes from taxes and those other countries that are taxed at a higher rate to pay for these more extensive programs are happy to pay those higher taxes, happy with their extensive social service programs and happier overall because of these things. Also, things we need to protect the greater good cost money that comes from taxes. Police, firefighters, FAA, education, social security, FDA etc.
If I was living under a rock but knowing beneficial social programs cost money and the propensity to cut taxes, I would guess that in the recent past and the foreseeable future, that we probably have seen and will see more tragedies because of tax cuts. Death and injuries because of more: railroad accidents, bridge collapses, dirty drinking water, food or product on store shelves harming people, airplane accidents, people (teachers, firefighters, police, EMS) protesting and picketing. On and on the list goes. The sooner people realize that either we adequately pay for these services with monies, or we pay for the lack of these services with life and injury, the better off as a society we will be.
Ignorance would imply that I am not familiar with the topic. I assure you that I am.
Quote:
Originally Posted by txbullsfan
Ive cruised through some of the responses lately and its sad to see that a some feel that income inequality is either not a thing despite all the research and evidence to show the contrary, or it is a thing and it is 100% solely because of poor personal choices. That everyone can be wealthy, or at least comfortable and/or meet the bare minimum in the current system that is in place. That is incredibly naive thinking.
I am certain that it exists.
I am on pension, my pension is equal to Minimum-Wage. I am well aware of what it takes to support a family on Minimum-Wage.
I am also aware that there are people who earn hundreds of thousands of dollars, or even millions of dollars each year.
It is obvious that there exists an income inequality.
You have money in the bank, a home and a pension. You also live in a low COL area. Ask yourself how many low income people have those things.
What would YOU like to do? Do you think a person with no education and no marketable skills should be paid as much as Ben Carson?
I worked full time and went to school full time to improve my financial position back when I was young and making minimum wage. I had to start over at age 44 after a divorce left me with only $10,000 plus child support and spousal support payments. I went three years with not a single day off due to working one full time job plus two part time jobs to make sure I could put away enough to retire.
I have money in the bank, a home, and a small ($750/month) pension. Nobody just decided to give these to me for the heck of it. There NEVER has been a time when everyone had exactly the same amount of money, nor should there be, but there is still more opportunity in this country than in most other places. Unfortunately, bettering one’s self usually involves work, delayed gratification, and sacrifice. “But it’s too haaaaard.â€
There are plenty of social programs as it is. They should be reserved for people who are mentally and/or physically incapable of working. There was a time in this country when anyone capable of working did everything possible to better his or her situation without putting a hand out. Now it’s more gimme, gimme, gimme and poor, poor, pitiful me.
You have money in the bank, a home and a pension. You also live in a low COL area. Ask yourself how many low income people have those things.
I did not say I was destitute.
I knew how much my pension was going to be long before I retired, I decided to move to a low COL region. To live among a community of other low-income retirees.
I thought we were discussing people with a Minimum-Wage level of income, but now you want to change the discussion to people with no income?
Life can be difficult for folks on a Minimum-Wage level of income, but it can work out in a low COL area. Which is why this is such a popular destination for fellow retirees [being the oldest state with the highest percentage of retirees and all].
For people without any income, surely it will be much harder.
Its a shame that some in this country believe that anyone working a legal full time job in this country, regardless of what the job is, do not deserve health benefits or a living wage (bare minimum to live) based on geographic location as a bare minimum starting point. That while people who have an education, more experience etc should make more then the starting living wage amount, that a living wage should be not be the starting point. That some pass over the continued aggregation of wealth in this country from middle class/lower class to profitable corporations and executives. That some dehumanize human beings who flip burgers, pick vegetables, scrub toilets, serve lattes etc saying because of their position, they deserve less then the bare minimum to live. I'm happy to say this group that has this line of thinking is shrinking but it is a shame this line of thinking still exists. This mentality needs to change before we get to true AI and automation. It needs to change from "taking as much as I can mentality" (which is prevalent to one degree or another in all of us) to "only taking what I need and ensuring others get what they need as well" mentality - greater good. There is still time. We can do this as a species and society.
Moderator cut: .
Last edited by toosie; 05-13-2018 at 12:20 PM..
Reason: TOS Copyright
For those of that view, I would encourage you to read the through this thread in its entirety starting with the original post, and the short video link therein as a start.
The videos are classic propaganda and disinformation.
One begins discussing income, then very cleverly and disingenuously shifts from Income to Wealth.
Income and Wealth are two entirely different animals, yet the video producer attempts to pretend they are not.
Wealth may include Income, and even include cold hard cash, but more often than not, Wealth is non-cash assets like stocks, bonds and real estate. While the value of bonds are fixed at face value plus interest, the value of stocks and real estate are subject to the whims of Supply & Demand.
While the video producer constantly harps on "since the 1980s Wealth has increased," implying that it's somehow Reagan's fault, the producer refuses to inform people that over that time period, Demand has increased at a faster rate than any other time in history. Not only has Demand drastically increased in the US over that time period, it has increased globally as well.
This greater Demand since 1980 is reflected in part through higher stock prices, which have increased 10-fold since 1980, and housing prices, which have increased 5-fold, if not more in some areas, resulting in the inflation of Wealth for many people.
So, it's not like it's some conspiracy or something.
Suggestions that this Wealth should be redistributed are fanciful, if not outright absurd. Not only is there not enough cash or credit available to liquidate assets to redistribute, an attempt en masse would result in the sudden deflation of the value of the assets (and the value is purely theoretical in the first place) by as much as 86% -- and that's not something I pulled out of thin air, it's an actual historical deflation.
Someone's $100,000,000 portfolio of assets ends up being $14,000,000 or even less.
Physically dividing the assets wouldn't be feasible, and even if it would, the very people it's suppose to benefit have no use for assets -- which is why they don't have any now -- so they would quickly attempt to liquidate them for cash, triggering the same massive value deflation, since they live in the "here and now" with no concern for their future.
In any event, the fact that one person has more stocks or real estate than another, doesn't result in any harm, especially since everyone is free to acquire Wealth, they just have to want to do it.
With respect to "Income Inequality", the median CEO pay is $196,050 according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Highlighting the salaries of a handful of CEO's leading publicly traded corporations -- and publicly traded corporations are only 3% of all businesses in the US -- is duplicitous at best, but typical of propaganda and disinformation artists.
Studies like Piketty are heavily flawed and grotesquely biased:
Previous studies using U.S. tax return data, such as Piketty and Saez (2003), concluded that top one percent income shares increased substantially since 1960. But tax return based measures are biased by tax base changes and missing income sources. Accounting for these limitations reduces the increase in top one percent income shares by two-thirds. Further, accounting for government transfers reduces the increase over 80 percent. After-tax income results are similar. This shows that unadjusted tax return based measures present a distorted view of inequality because incomes reported on tax returns are sensitive to tax law changes and omit significant income sources.
It's noteworthy that none of those who rant about "Income Inequality" can point to any negative consequences in the economy.
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