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Old 01-27-2019, 02:35 PM
 
10,764 posts, read 5,683,884 times
Reputation: 10884

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
You change the law to reflect the realities of personal property and property by usage.
It's cute that you think society should change its laws to accommodate your uniquely held beliefs.

 
Old 01-27-2019, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,438,068 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
It's cute that you think society should change its laws to accommodate your uniquely held beliefs.
It's not about what I believe, it is about what produces the least tyranny.

If there is vacant housing the homeless could settle into, or vacant land available to settle into, people should be able to.

Today a few entities on all these vacant properties, develop them to price ordinary people out, or sit on them and not allow anyone else to use them.

Does it make sense in terms of natural law to send police to bash the skulls of people freely living in a certain area by their own means?
 
Old 01-27-2019, 02:42 PM
 
10,764 posts, read 5,683,884 times
Reputation: 10884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
It's not about what I believe, it is about what produces the least tyranny.

If there is vacant housing the homeless could settle into, or vacant land available to settle into, people should be able to.

Today a few entities on all these vacant properties, develop them to price ordinary people out, or sit on them and not allow anyone else to use them.

Does it make sense in terms of natural law to send police to bash the skulls of people freely living in a certain area by their own means?
If they are squatting on my property, the answer is "Of Course!"
 
Old 01-27-2019, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,438,068 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
If they are squatting on my property, the answer is "Of Course!"
How is it your property?

You don't live there, you don't utilize the land, so how is it yours. What gives you the authority to have excess power over others?

Imagine if a cave man declared a cave on the otherside of the world as his, would that make sense?

No, because documentation does not create ownership, ownership is based on control. Now if entities have control of all this excess land, charge extra for it, or keep them off the market to rise property value, is it not authoritarian for them to cause the homeless to live out in the streets?
 
Old 01-27-2019, 03:06 PM
 
Location: 5,400 feet
4,867 posts, read 4,809,545 times
Reputation: 7957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
No, because documentation does not create ownership, ownership is based on control. Now if entities have control of all this excess land, charge extra for it, or keep them off the market to rise property value, is it not authoritarian for them to cause the homeless to live out in the streets?
We can chalk up yet another thing you don't understand. Private ownership of land is based on the law. Control of property flows out ownership, which flows out of the law. Our right to have privately owned property is one of the key factors that has contributed to our high standard of living.
 
Old 01-27-2019, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
7,649 posts, read 4,606,610 times
Reputation: 12713
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiminnm View Post
We can chalk up yet another thing you don't understand. Private ownership of land is based on the law. Control of property flows out ownership, which flows out of the law. Our right to have privately owned property is one of the key factors that has contributed to our high standard of living.
Agreed...when you look at countries that have underdeveloped agriculture, chances are you will find an accompanying lack of legitimate title for the farmers to use. No title = No collateral = No development
 
Old 01-27-2019, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
7,649 posts, read 4,606,610 times
Reputation: 12713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Your desperate attempts to misconstrue what I'm saying won't work.

People maintain their property because they own and us it. Do you only wash your dishes if someone pays you?

And cooperative ownership of public tools like roads or medical facilities will be controlled and funded by the owners, who are the cumulative users of that good.
I'm speaking rather plainly. My car needs its oil changed...will you go change it for me if I give you a ride for a couple of miles? I'll charge you the same as everyone else.

Have you ever been to a shared kitchen? Even though it's in everyone's interests to have a clean kitchen, nobody cleans the entire kitchen and washes the dishes for free. The last time you went to a restaurant did you offer to hop in the kitchen and clean your dishes that you used. That you utilized?

A government entity owns the roads. Who is going to buy it from them? I already paid for it once with my taxes, so don't look at me. If you want to open a hospital and give away your services....do it. Most hospitals are not for profit organizations. Now me...I like my hospitals run by professionally trained medicine professionals, but feel free to open up your own Winterfall Free Gyno exams and Lemonade stand...and see how well that goes.
 
Old 01-27-2019, 03:47 PM
 
Location: San Diego
50,327 posts, read 47,080,006 times
Reputation: 34089
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
How is it your property?

You don't live there, you don't utilize the land, so how is it yours. What gives you the authority to have excess power over others?

Imagine if a cave man declared a cave on the otherside of the world as his, would that make sense?

No, because documentation does not create ownership, ownership is based on control. Now if entities have control of all this excess land, charge extra for it, or keep them off the market to rise property value, is it not authoritarian for them to cause the homeless to live out in the streets?
Depends, did the cave man dig the cave? If so then, ya.
 
Old 01-27-2019, 03:50 PM
 
15,439 posts, read 7,506,592 times
Reputation: 19371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
1. No it's not. Without state protection and property valuation, vacant land wouldn't be owned by any one individual or entity

2. Nope, I didn't make up the word: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_property

3. Flipping homes is only a symptom of the problem. As logos was telling you in the other thread, investing in real-estate, speculating on its value, and making wealth off of no labor, adds to the demand.

Traditionally demand would only be affected by function, or people would buy things for whatever value they had in of themselves. Now people also buy property for their numerical value, not for the function they play. That's why buyers of high end realestate don't move in, but just use them as an investment tool.

That artificially raises demand and market prices. Besides that there is marketing, which opens up an entirely different can of warms.
Once again, you spout baseless garbage with no basis in any sort of rational reality. If an investor buys a property, it doesn't normally sit empty, but is rented out, or used for some purpose that provides a return to the owner. Or, an investor buys the property with a view to redevelop, or to build better structures once financing is arranged, teh amrket studies performed, permits and approvals gained, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
It's not about what I believe, it is about what produces the least tyranny.

If there is vacant housing the homeless could settle into, or vacant land available to settle into, people should be able to.

Today a few entities on all these vacant properties, develop them to price ordinary people out, or sit on them and not allow anyone else to use them.

Does it make sense in terms of natural law to send police to bash the skulls of people freely living in a certain area by their own means?
Yes, if the property doesn't belong to them, they have no right to be there. What makes you think developers price ordinary people out? Are just envious because you aren't old enough to buy an awesome house in the spot you want to live, and think society owes you that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
How is it your property?

You don't live there, you don't utilize the land, so how is it yours. What gives you the authority to have excess power over others?

Imagine if a cave man declared a cave on the otherside of the world as his, would that make sense?

No, because documentation does not create ownership, ownership is based on control. Now if entities have control of all this excess land, charge extra for it, or keep them off the market to rise property value, is it not authoritarian for them to cause the homeless to live out in the streets?
The homeless generally live on the streets because that's where they feel comfortable. Every time Houston tries to do something for the homeless, they refuse the assistance. Some of the homeless are, like you, lazy, and think society owes them a living and a place to live. That's prima facie evidence of people who take without providing any benefit.

What I am seeing from your statements is that you oppose me buying a piece of property now that may take me a couple of decades to develop into my perfect retirement home. That pretty much makes you anti-freedom, and pro-tyranny, because you don't think I should have any choice that isn't approved by you.
 
Old 01-27-2019, 04:08 PM
 
286 posts, read 211,323 times
Reputation: 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
How is it your property?

You don't live there, you don't utilize the land, so how is it yours. What gives you the authority to have excess power over others?

Imagine if a cave man declared a cave on the otherside of the world as his, would that make sense?

No, because documentation does not create ownership, ownership is based on control. Now if entities have control of all this excess land, charge extra for it, or keep them off the market to rise property value, is it not authoritarian for them to cause the homeless to live out in the streets?
I have a big backyard and don't use some part of it.
Are you saying anyone can put a tent and live there? By your logic, if I don't use it - it is not mine anymore. And while we are on the subject, how is that unused part of my backyard made someone homeless.
Thanks.
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