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Old Yesterday, 01:50 PM
 
5,844 posts, read 3,122,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
On a scale of 1 to 30, I'd give it a 2 or a 3 because I don't think any competing currency will replace it. Unless ultra-left liberals gain control of the government then I'd give it a 10 or 12.
The economy and the instrinsic value of the $ is not correlated between political party and who is president. In fact I would argue that republicans have been just as harmful to our economy since Reagan as have been Democrats. From my perspective I see little daylight between Clinton/Obama and Reagan/Bush sr /Bush Jr / Trump. They have all participated in the economic self destruction of America in similar fashions and in fact Trump has produced the worst federal budgets and deficits in the history of mankind. Rand Paul was the only “conservative” with enough cohenes to even speak up at all against it. The GOP has 0 credibility in my book, just liberals wearing different lipstick.
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Old Yesterday, 05:27 PM
 
10,693 posts, read 4,964,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWFL_Native View Post
The economy and the instrinsic value of the $ is not correlated between political party and who is president. In fact I would argue that republicans have been just as harmful to our economy since Reagan as have been Democrats. From my perspective I see little daylight between Clinton/Obama and Reagan/Bush sr /Bush Jr / Trump. They have all participated in the economic self destruction of America in similar fashions and in fact Trump has produced the worst federal budgets and deficits in the history of mankind. Rand Paul was the only “conservative” with enough cohenes to even speak up at all against it. The GOP has 0 credibility in my book, just liberals wearing different lipstick.

You can argue whatever you want but I wasn't talking about past administrations. I may have not voted for Bill Clinton or Obama but they were reasonable and practical in their goals. I'm talking about the new crop of Democrats that have gone full-on socialist. Even previous Dems like Obama are warning they have gone too far. I'm talking about if the "Squad" expands and attains power. Those types are driven by idealism and they really don't care if it makes economic sense or fairness.
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Old Yesterday, 05:40 PM
 
9,438 posts, read 4,159,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
China is rumored to be releasing gold backed crypto .... that can hurt the dollar big time .....terrible for the dollar , good for gold
Until China opens its economy, eliminates secrecy and develops an economic system the rest of the world trusts, their old or new currencies will not become a major global reserve.
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Old Yesterday, 05:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
If the dollar collapses all of a sudden it becomes cheap to do business here. We are self sustainable on the food and energy front. I'm not saying it wouldn't suck but we would be a lot better off than Greece and Spain and they are still ticking and in fact starting to climb out of their death spiral - lots of clothing jobs moving to Spain for instance.

Does anyone really trust China? If the US released a fed controlled gold backed crypto I could see it being used worldwide, but China?

I'm not an expert on central bank policies but the whole fiat thing always was perplexing...that the "bank" could just create money to "fix" systemic issues is nutso to me. And the fact that China will just stand idly by while we print money to fund our military...
This is a feature of modern fiat in strong and successful nations. China is of course using it hand over fist. But huge amounts of it are done in secrecy with the direction of their central command.
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Old Yesterday, 05:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
If the US dollar collapses, then the entire modern world collapses... not a possibility worthy of much fear.

The "fiat thing" becomes intuitive, once we realize that all wealth is just a matter of convention. It's convention that gold is valuable. Is there any intrinsic reason for gold to be more valuable than say stainless steel? It's not a matter of physical durability, or industrial utility, or scarcity. Ultimately it's just convention.

If wealth is merely a matter of convention, then wealth can be created or destroyed, as our perceptions change. A painting sells for $20M, while arguably a better one sells for only $50K at auction. Why? Perception, tastes, crowd psychology. One painter created $20M of value (minutes the costs of the paints and easel), while another only managed 0.25% of that. Wow! Ultimately, all human activities are "fiat". Nothing backs them, save what other humans happen to think at the time.
Gold is rare and beautiful in its unusual color. And tends not to tarnish over time. So it has a long history as currency, a store of value and utility with trade.
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Old Yesterday, 06:13 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
29,604 posts, read 64,253,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Gold is rare and beautiful in its unusual color. And tends not to tarnish over time.
So it has a long history as currency, a store of value and utility with trade.
That's the convention being described (and critiqued).
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Old Yesterday, 06:31 PM
 
9,438 posts, read 4,159,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
That's the convention being described (and critiqued).
But that's why gold has had a long history of value. This intrinsic value preceded the convention.
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Old Today, 01:48 AM
 
Location: Tijuana Exurbs
4,069 posts, read 10,600,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
China is rumored to be releasing gold backed crypto .... that can hurt the dollar big time .....terrible for the dollar , good for gold
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
Does anyone really trust China? If the US released a fed controlled gold backed crypto I could see it being used worldwide, but China?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Until China opens its economy, eliminates secrecy and develops an economic system the rest of the world trusts, their old or new currencies will not become a major global reserve.
Wheelsup and Hoonose have it right.

I know there is a lot of talk about the Chinese Yuan becoming a reserve, or THE next reserve currency, but until people trust China it's not going to happen, and they certainly don't trust China. Even the Chinese people don't trust China.

Believe it or not, people world-wide trust the United States to protect their money with the rule of law. Even during the financial crisis of 2008-2009 which ORIGINATED in the United States, investors world-wide redirected their money to the United States for safe-keeping.

So during the next 30 years, barring a nuclear war, the chances of a dollar collapse are 1 on a scale of 1 to 10. I was going to say 0 but there is always the possibility of President Ocasio-Cortez.
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Old Today, 02:34 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
1,918 posts, read 2,376,751 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Gold is rare and beautiful in its unusual color. And tends not to tarnish over time. So it has a long history as currency, a store of value and utility with trade.
The term "currency" means a current form of value. Gold is not currency, it is considered real money.

On another point, for those that thing the dollar would never collapse, they must have blinders on. Since the dollar was taken off the gold standard it has been collapsing. Todays dollar is only worth 2 cents compared to the dollar just a few decades ago.
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Old Today, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
9,682 posts, read 8,869,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Gold is rare and beautiful in its unusual color. And tends not to tarnish over time. So it has a long history as currency, a store of value and utility with trade.
So what? Why should I trade my labor or assets for an oddly colored, non-tarnishing chunk of metal? I am only doing so because other people are willing to take that chunk of metal and give me labor or assets for it in turn. How is this inherently different from a paper currency?

You also have the problem of value. Is an ounce of gold worth one hour of labor? 10hours? 100 hours? Can an ounce of gold buy 10 jars of peanut butter? 1000 jars? 5000 jars? All value is agreed on in some manner, by fiat if you prefer that term. It isn’t inherent in the chunk of metal.

What about when you don’t have enough gold to equal the value of everything else? According to https://www.statista.com/statistics/...gold-reserves/, the US has a bit over 8000 tons in its gold reserve, which is worth about $11 billion. More info can be found here: How Much Gold Reserves Does The U.S. Have? - KELSEY'S GOLD FACTS

So, $11 billion. That isn’t much. It is enough to purchase:

2 1/2 NFL teams https://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/list/, or;
0.0067% of Manhattan real estate https://www.citylab.com/life/2018/04...-worth/558776/, or;
A bit over 1% of Amazon.com....

I think you get the idea. There simply isn’t enough gold to use it as a base for currency. There is too much stuff, with too much value, for gold to have any utility here.

Everything, including precious metals, is only valuable because we agree it is.
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