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What did they pay back? They got their money from AIG which got their money from the tax payers. Thats why they are rolling in it plus the money they got from short positions on AIG. They knew AiG was backing junk otherwise they would not have been net short on AIG. Its really a simple operation.
They paid back the TARP funds they borrowed, how much they've gotten from AIG or any other company is not really irrelevant.
Most of the money from AIG was received in previous quarters, they are rolling in the dough because volatile markets are big money makers.
Goldman Sachs never needed any money at all from the government. Quit fooling yourselves into thinking this company, or Wells Fargo, Bank Of New York, Amex, or JP Morgan were "bailed out". The well publicized truth of the matter is that they were shanghaied into participating in TARP under the Bush administration, and then Obama's people turned TARP into a scarlet letter and used it to get the masses "outraged" so that they could exercise control over the banks. These companies never wanted or needed TARP money, with the notable exception of Citi and Bank of America. The government even did everything they could to make it more difficult to pay the money back!
On top of that, these banks each paid the government HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in dividends on the preferred shares that were purchased by the government as part of the deal. The taxpayers you people keep whining about made BILLIONS of dollars in profit on this deal. Too bad it won't amount to anything, because the government if just going to **** it away anyway.
And besides, why on earth are all you people so pissed off because a successful company like Goldman Sachs pays it's people so well? The employees are what makes a corporation profitable, so isn't it a really good thing when a corporation rewards it's people? That's just smart business to me - I wish my company did that, and you'd love it if your employer did too. It's part of this thing we used to call the American Dream. You just need to learn to reach for your own piece of that dream instead of sitting around and whining "It's not fair" when someone else does well. Successful people in America today should be emulated, not castigated.
Last edited by treasurekidd; 07-15-2009 at 05:21 PM..
the american dream does not involve being bailed out by taxpayers, "whether they needed the money or not".......
not to mention that it would be nice to see someone at goldman go on the record to explain what’s stopping the world’s most powerful investment bank from using its trading program in unfair ways, as well.
the american dream does not involve being bailed out by taxpayers, "whether they needed the money or not".......
There really is no talking to people with this type of mindset, is there? No offense, but did you even read what I wrote? Or are your jealousies just so deeply ingrained that you will blatantly ignore facts in order to protect your own version of events? Think whatever you want, but I guarantee that this type way of thinking will never, ever, ever do anything whatsoever to help improve anyone's lot in life, and will probably go a long way towards keeping you exactly where you are - unhappy and jealous of everyone else's success. Me, I'm just gonna keep making buying stock in Goldman Sachs.
Last edited by treasurekidd; 07-15-2009 at 06:30 PM..
you are jumping to some pretty baseless conclusions there (i.e., implying both jealousy and unhappiness) so i can only assume that you don't think before you post. you are saying that they did not need the money, but the fact is that THEY DID TAKE THE MONEY! it sounds ridiculous when you say that they were forced to take the money from one administration and then almost stopped from paying it back by another administration. poor goldman sachs as victims, just brilliant strategists who deserve these giant bonuses but keep getting hoodwinked by the government!
you can assume that there is some great trading involved, but it is pretty hard not to make money when you have $10 billion TARP money, plus a federal reserve bailout, plus more than $13 billion with a direct line to the us treasury through AIG, as well as a trading program that is now under investigation.
for anyone who hasn't read the goldman sachs article by taibbi for rolling stone here it is:
http://statismwatch.ca/2009/06/24/goldman-sachs-the-great-american-bubble-machine/ (broken link)
Last edited by floridasandy; 07-15-2009 at 07:55 PM..
They paid back the TARP funds they borrowed, how much they've gotten from AIG or any other company is not really irrelevant.
Most of the money from AIG was received in previous quarters, they are rolling in the dough because volatile markets are big money makers.
Over the last several years Goldman Sachs entered into a metric ton worth of credit default swaps with AIG, even though AIG was incapable of paying off on those swaps. They did so as the "brightest people in the room", that is, either knowing that AIG was incapable of covering the bet or simply not caring that AIG could not cover the bet.
These transactions allowed Goldman (and the other banks who engaged in them) to hold "assets" on their books at intentionally-inflated values - that is, at demonstrably more than those "assets" were actually worth in the market, under the rubric that should their value fall Goldman would be able to "recover" under their insurance policies (the CDS.)
But in point of fact these transactions were never any good, because AIG didn't have the money to pay.
When this became evident Goldman (and others) managed to connive the government into "saving" AIG by throwing more than $100 billion dollars of taxpayer money into the firm. About $13 billion of that went directly to Goldman Sachs to "pay off" those contracts. Billions more went to other institutions, INCLUDING BANKS IN EUROPE.
In doing this, Goldman and these other banks forced the taxpayer to eat their bad bet - that is, their loss. That $13 billion was in fact unearned - they had no right to it, as AIG was in fact insolvent and they would have collected zero had the firm gone into bankruptcy. Goldman and these other banks were either unable or unwilling to rescue the firm themselves, so through the use of political influence peddling they got the taxpayer to do it for them, thereby collecting on a transaction that they either knew or should have known had no chance of being paid off at the time they entered into it.
Having done this, they placed yet more bets. This time they won those bets, and made a "profit." But they would have never had the capital to place the bets but for the taxpayer bailing them out in the first place, as they would have likely gone under last fall.
the real objection of Taibbi and others (myself included) is that Goldman managed to steal $13 billion dollars of American Taxpayer money, WITHOUT WHICH THEY WOULD NOT EXIST TODAY. Having stolen that money through claims of imminent financial collapse made by their former head, Henry Paulson, at their urging, they now have speculated with that taxpayer money and kept the proceeds.
Nobody would object were Goldman to return not only their "TARP" money but also the entirety of the "passthrough" benefits they have received, specifically but not exclusively the $13 billion dollars that was funneled through AIG to them.
But if Goldman had done that, they would have posted a huge loss, and in addition would not have had the money to repay TARP.
Nobody I am aware of cares if a firm is able to turn a legitimate profit through their actions in the market. We object not to profit, but to blatant chiseling of the taxpayer after a company or individual makes a bad bet due to their own incompetence or willful blindness, then demands that the taxpayer cover it, yet when their bets turn out well, they keep the money and hand it to their "associates."
That's robbery, and I and others will continue to point it out until the shills who advocate for same and try to excuse it, along with Goldman themselves, are held to account.
(denninger)
Over the last several years Goldman Sachs entered into a metric ton worth of credit default swaps with AIG, even though AIG was incapable of paying off on those swaps. They did so as the "brightest people in the room", that is, either knowing that AIG was incapable of covering the bet or simply not caring that AIG could not cover the bet.
.....blah blah blah.
I'm perfectly aware of what happened with AIG and to say it again, I don't think its relevant.
I'm perfectly aware of what happened with AIG and to say it again, I don't think its relevant.
then you must not be a taxpayer.
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