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Seriously, this thread is just depressing me. Lots and lots of whining from upper middle class parents about nothing in particular. Too much homework, not enough homework. Too much emphasis on sports, not enough outdoor time. Why don't people just cheer up already???
Ah, yes. "Whining parents." We don't know a thing about our own kids do we?
I suppose we probably could simply 'cheer up' if we weren't so busy filling in the gaps of math programs that are little more than exercises in "how to develop your child's ADHD with math programs that jump around more than a frog on Jolt Cola."
I love that "frog on jolt cola" term. It's so very true. I read it once on a blog that a parent had written. He was sick of beating his head against a wall (much like the rest of us) with Everyday Math AKA "Chicago Math" (while the so-called 'experts' keep telling us how wrong we are).
Meanwhile, back at my ranch, I intend to spend the summer with my kids catching frogs and letting them see that there is more to life than filling in bubbles on a test.
Perhaps we'll draw a chart in the sand and multiply how many we've caught and released. Perhaps not. I really don't care anymore. If I'm to shoulder the blame for my kids not learning what they need to learn in order to move upward to higher maths, then so be it.
Either way, eventually (be it simple maturity or tutoring when they are ready to actually try it without spending more time fighting about it than just doing it) my kids will get it.
It's not fair.
"Gluing leaves" is neither important, nor intellectually challenging. I was just thinking that Chester might have to be expected to learn what needs learning anyway, despite his "learning style being more conducive to frou-frou". Aren't all children's "learning styles" conducive to those anyway?
I mean, ask any child: do you want to glue fun leaves or do you want to bang your head against the wall with this painful Math problem?
Guess which is the vast majority of children going to pick if left to their own devices?
However, if Archibald can deal with the test-type stuff, he should not be forced to also do "frou-frou" projects just to make it fair for Chester.
If Chester and parents insist that his learning style is "visual" and he benefits from "gluing leaves", he should be free to do it that way
(Lord help Chester when testing time comes, but that's a different story).
However, Chester's "learning style" should not impose limits on the Archibalds of the school.
I just don't want Archibald's time taken up with frou-frou projects when I need him to do Math (hard Math, like the kind I see children in my homecountry doing).
That - if I understood your gripe correctly.
Sorry, but you are plain old wrong. Every learning style deserves to have assessments that cover their learning style even if YOU don't think those assessments are important.
Creativity, small motor skills and alternative methods of communication are all legitimate skills and I say this as both a scientist and chemistry teacher who knows better then most the importance of math skills. As a parent, I was never a fan of those projects either as my daughter is naturally good at math and more classical skills but I can be objective enough to know that doing them was ultimately good for her. They taught her that learning to do things well, even if they are not your cup of, is important.
If nothing else your child is learning one of the most important lessons of all, not everyone excels at all projects and out in the real world, most employers benefit from having a couple of Chesters to go along with the Archibalds. A lesson you appear to not have learned, everyone has to do things that they do not always see the worth in.
Finally, if your child needs more rote memorization or drills than he is getting at school, then give them to him. Public schools by definition have to teach to the mean, where the average student gets the skills they need to be proficient. If your child is not proficient in a skill yet, or you want him to be far above proficient, than that is your responsibility to meet as a parent. It is fundamentally unfair to take away from other types of skills just to meet your child's shortcomings.
Sorry, but you are plain old wrong. Every learning style deserves to have assessments that cover their learning style even if YOU don't think those assessments are important.
Creativity, small motor skills and alternative methods of communication are all legitimate skills and I say this as both a scientist and chemistry teacher who knows better then most the importance of math skills. As a parent, I was never a fan of those projects either as my daughter is naturally good at math and more classical skills but I can be objective enough to know that doing them was ultimately good for her. They taught her that learning to do things well, even if they are not your cup of, is important.
If nothing else your child is learning one of the most important lessons of all, not everyone excels at all projects and out in the real world, most employers benefit from having a couple of Chesters to go along with the Archibalds. A lesson you appear to not have learned, everyone has to do things that they do not always see the worth in.
Finally, if your child needs more rote memorization or drills than he is getting at school, then give them to him. Public schools by definition have to teach to the mean, where the average student gets the skills they need to be proficient. If your child is not proficient in a skill yet, or you want him to be far above proficient, than that is your responsibility to meet as a parent. It is fundamentally unfair to take away from other types of skills just to meet your child's shortcomings.
You are trying to defend a theory whose premises I don't agree with.
I don't agree that schools should cater to all sorts of supposed "learning styles". School is school. It must teach Basic Academics well and children should be expected to learn.
Preferring colorful visuals and easy projects like gluing whatever on paper is not a "learning style".
It is plain old indulgence in something easy and entertaining.
Yes, I want my child to be far above proficient in Basics, especially since I noticed that whatever American public schools deem "proficient" in Basics (especially Math) is usually far below what many other countries deem "proficient".
Expectations are generally low - which is why I take full responsibility as a parent to raise the bar higher at home. It is not about rote memorization in and of itself.
It is about getting to the serious business AFTER things like the multiplication table and whatever else requires "rote", have become so second nature that they feel like going to the bathroom. Then the child should be expected to push towards more and more complex math problems.
Such levels of proficiency requires TIME (yes, first for rote, then for so much more).
So, may I please skip Chester's "visual" and often highly time-consuming projects to have the time to get my child to the level I raised the bar to?
Really, why do I have to do Chester's "visual" projects? Just because public schools teach to the "mean"?
What if I don't have the money to put the kid in a private school?
After all, I haven't asked for any additional attention for my child - just enough time to get him at home to a higher level than the "mean".
This might mean "spare me the Chester projects".
Give me a good argument as to why I should not be spared.
I agree. The memorization of math facts is a tool, that will enable students to:
divide
compute fractions (finding gcf, lcd)
factor
convert decimals
It has been very clear to me that the calculator kids DO NOT come up with the correct answer as often as the students using traditional methods.
You are trying to defend a theory whose premises I don't agree with.
I don't agree that schools should cater to all sorts of supposed "learning styles". School is school. It must teach Basic Academics well and children should be expected to learn.
Preferring colorful visuals and easy projects like gluing whatever on paper is not a "learning style".
It is plain old indulgence in something easy and entertaining.
Yes, I want my child to be far above proficient in Basics, especially since I noticed that whatever American public schools deem "proficient" in Basics (especially Math) is usually far below what many other countries deem "proficient".
Expectations are generally low - which is why I take full responsibility as a parent to raise the bar higher at home. It is not about rote memorization in and of itself.
It is about getting to the serious business AFTER things like the multiplication table and whatever else requires "rote", have become so second nature that they feel like going to the bathroom. Then the child should be expected to push towards more and more complex math problems.
Such levels of proficiency requires TIME (yes, first for rote, then for so much more).
So, may I please skip Chester's "visual" and often highly time-consuming projects to have the time to get my child to the level I raised the bar to?
Really, why do I have to do Chester's "visual" projects? Just because public schools teach to the "mean"?
What if I don't have the money to put the kid in a private school?
After all, I haven't asked for any additional attention for my child - just enough time to get him at home to a higher level than the "mean".
This might mean "spare me the Chester projects".
Give me a good argument as to why I should not be spared.
Uhm, maybe because school isn't about YOU.
Can you imagine if every parent got to decide which material is worth learning? Which things their child should get a pass on and which they should get graded on?
If you really want to avoid the projects and think you know better than the teachers, than either home school or send them to a private school. But asking for your special little snowflake to not have to do the work everyone else does because YOU think fine motor skills are a skill set your child doesn't need is asinine.
You can keep blathering about other countries all you want but the "my child shouldn't have to do what everyone else does" is class bad American parent behavior. Oh and FYI, I have gone to school in another country in Asia so I am also cognizant of schooling outside this country.
Can you imagine if every parent got to decide which material is worth learning? Which things their child should get a pass on and which they should get graded on?
If you really want to avoid the projects and think you know better than the teachers, than either home school or send them to a private school. But asking for your special little snowflake to not have to do the work everyone else does because YOU think fine motor skills are a skill set your child doesn't need is asinine.
You can keep blathering about other countries all you want but the "my child shouldn't have to do what everyone else does" is class bad American parent behavior. Oh and FYI, I have gone to school in another country in Asia so I am also cognizant of schooling outside this country.
Gotcha.
The conclusion is the same for all parents who have no alternative but send their children to a public school yet still want the child to acquire a VERY rigorous classical education:
work like a dog with them at home AND do the inane projects you will defend to your last breath. Who said you need to sleep at night?
No one is suggesting that gluing leaves on paper replaces learning to do multiplication problems. No one is suggesting that all parents need to spend $100 on a project because Chester is a visual learner.
What people ARE suggesting is that there are many ways to assess learning on a topic. In my middle school math class, I've assigned projects such as creating a "poster" (using an 11 x 17 piece of paper and colored pencils) that illustrated finding the area/perimeter of a chosen shape. They've created instructional powerpoints to teach their classmates about how to solve word problems. Students have created a song that contained all the steps for converting between customary units of measurement. They had to create riddles that described their favorite quadrilateral, and quiz their classmates. Of course, they've also done work sheets, taken quizzes, and done skill drills.
Ask them how to convert in metric, and they'll **** their head sideways and tell you they never learned that. Ask 'em how to convert in customary, and they'll start singing you their song. On that test, i had to shush numerous kids from singing to themselves through the exam, but the grades were higher than any other unit.
As a public school teacher, you work with what you have. I'm not going to force a whole generation of visual, musical learners to become people who love direct instruction. It's a waste of my time. Yes, they need to learn how to deal with it once in a while, but why force it every day when there are other ways to learn or demonstrate knowledge of the material?
Now, if the kids aren't learning anything from the project, it's a waste of time, no one should argue that.
Ah, yes. "Whining parents." We don't know a thing about our own kids do we?
I suppose we probably could simply 'cheer up' if we weren't so busy filling in the gaps of math programs that are little more than exercises in "how to develop your child's ADHD with math programs that jump around more than a frog on Jolt Cola."
I love that "frog on jolt cola" term. It's so very true. I read it once on a blog that a parent had written. He was sick of beating his head against a wall (much like the rest of us) with Everyday Math AKA "Chicago Math" (while the so-called 'experts' keep telling us how wrong we are).
Meanwhile, back at my ranch, I intend to spend the summer with my kids catching frogs and letting them see that there is more to life than filling in bubbles on a test.
Perhaps we'll draw a chart in the sand and multiply how many we've caught and released. Perhaps not. I really don't care anymore. If I'm to shoulder the blame for my kids not learning what they need to learn in order to move upward to higher maths, then so be it.
Either way, eventually (be it simple maturity or tutoring when they are ready to actually try it without spending more time fighting about it than just doing it) my kids will get it.
I agree with your style of education and parenting wholeheartedly- I follow a similar path myself. I'm much more about creativity and learning at a childs' pace in the style which they prefer than worksheet after worksheet. This is precisely why we aren't in public schools. I became THAT parent who found all the things that were wrong in the schools and that I wanted changed to suit MY kids. Public school seems to be a 'one size fits all' proposition. If you want individual attention, be prepared to supplement at home, stay quiet, or home/private school.
I agree with your style of education and parenting wholeheartedly- I follow a similar path myself. I'm much more about creativity and learning at a childs' pace in the style which they prefer than worksheet after worksheet. This is precisely why we aren't in public schools. I became THAT parent who found all the things that were wrong in the schools and that I wanted changed to suit MY kids. Public school seems to be a 'one size fits all' proposition. If you want individual attention, be prepared to supplement at home, stay quiet, or home/private school.
Congratulations on your homeschooling.
Unfortunately, not all of us are able to do that. Some of us are supplementing or have sent out children to tutoring such as Sylvan (myself included).
Having said that, when I pick up my child when she stays after because she doesn't 'get' something (as is the case now) and fully 3/4 of the classroom parents are parked beside me waiting for their kids, I have to respectfully disagree that I should just "stay quiet."
When parents question anything and are promptly rebuked with "But it IS a great program! It works! Have you seen our latest test scores?" I go on to ask the question of how tutoring and supplementation are factored into those higher score statistics. I find myself listening to crickets. Many of the studies are sponsored by the very publishers who put out the product. This country seems to have a real issue with the definition of "conflict of interest" now and not just in education.
Clearly, there is something wrong with the program, but there is a lot of saving face going on IMHO. Not only do egos get in the way, but to change curriculums is also expensive and school budgets are being slashed.
Parents are very frustrated with this kind of thing. When parents get very frustrated, they don't support the teachers and you have the kind of pointless arguing and witch hunts that seem to be all the rage today.
Unfortunately, in the end, it's the kids who pay for that.
Unfortunately, not all of us are able to do that. Some of us are supplementing or have sent out children to tutoring such as Sylvan (myself included).
Having said that, when I pick up my child when she stays after because she doesn't 'get' something (as is the case now) and fully 3/4 of the classroom parents are parked beside me waiting for their kids, I have to respectfully disagree that I should just "stay quiet."
When parents question anything and are promptly rebuked with "But it IS a great program! It works! Have you seen our latest test scores?" I go on to ask the question of how tutoring and supplementation are factored into those higher score statistics. I find myself listening to crickets. Many of the studies are sponsored by the very publishers who put out the product. This country seems to have a real issue with the definition of "conflict of interest" now and not just in education.
Clearly, there is something wrong with the program, but there is a lot of saving face going on IMHO. Not only do egos get in the way, but to change curriculums is also expensive and school budgets are being slashed.
Parents are very frustrated with this kind of thing. When parents get very frustrated, they don't support the teachers and you have the kind of pointless arguing and witch hunts that seem to be all the rage today.
Unfortunately, in the end, it's the kids who pay for that.
I'm not a homeschooler- I'm a private schooler. We do agree- there is something VERY wrong with our public school system. It is NOT one size fits all- and that is wrong. I couldn't deal with standing in line and complaining all the time. Yes, private school is expensive...but at least they listen, and changes happen.
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I love that "frog on jolt cola" term. It's so very true. I read it once on a blog that a parent had written. He was sick of beating his head against a wall (much like the rest of us) with Everyday Math AKA "Chicago Math" (while the so-called 'experts' keep telling us how wrong we are).
