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good answers- and lets not assume just because the info is online, and easy to get, that kids will find it and learn from it..
if i were setting up a curriculum..... it would be more business based.... business math... ask a recent high school grad. that did well in math,,,what's the difference between mark-up and margin? and give an example.....
since most of the private sector sells goods or services, you would think this is important- but the curriculum is made up from teachers, to most others that have NOT worked in the private sector..
one of the best field trips we ever took was to a maple syrup making business.... in high school
not just because we got samples and watch how interesting it was being made,,,,but a couple kids started asking questions..
one question was "do you make enough money to retire on"?
and the old farmer smiled and asked the teacher if he could take the time to properly answer the question
the man asked one of us to count the bottles of syrup they had for sale- about 100 bottles displayed , different sizes
then asked how much money does that total? - at 4.00 a bottle it was $400 -(alot of money 30 yrs ago)
he was a farmer -sold veggies, milk, and meat cows too, along with wood for woodstoves
he asked us kids- from the 400.00 how much do we think would be "profit" we all guessed 300-400 dollars,
then he took a big sheet of construction paper and drew a pie chart- then broke it up into equipment, supplies, labor, taxes, and only 10-20% was actual profit-this was the first time in my life, someone actually explained profits, (income, expenses, etc, so that it made sense-we could "see" what he was talking about
this "applied" teaching really made it easy and hit home
the farmer was great- had a sense of humor, and fielded many questions, and also instilled in us kids- why his maple syrup and other items may cost more....... than at a supermarket.
other posters are right
take a field trip to a bank, mock-sign up for a checking account, and also have a loan officer talk about car loans and mortgages
have applied learning-how to rent an apartment- this is excellent
i took home-ec in high school-the boys had to for 6 months, while the girls had to take shop class-this class was a joke-it could have been soooooo much better-focusing on household budgets..income/expenses etc
i think typing class should be mandatory, i wished i took it in high school
i think a physical trainer/nutritionist should be guest speakers at high schools- but not with agendas, we had some fruit loop woman come to speak at our class, she was ..a fruitarian...consumed mostly just fruit, and slammed many veggies, most meats, and breads-she looked sickly, in her 30's rail thin with white hair- not a picture of health
the best guest speakers we got the most from were two prisoners from the state prison-two sherrifs were with them
the talked of how "cool" they thought they were in high school, smoking pot, and drinking excessively
one of the prisoners- said "i was you, with my whole life ahead of me, and now, after killing someone from drinking and driving, i'd rather be dead" I live with the guilt of killing someone everyday, and now have to shower, shyt, eat in front of others, when told to do so- i gave up my life because of wanting to be cool drinking beer
those guys sent a shockwave thru the class- and it made me rethink about drinking and driving.
two state troopers also visited the class- with two different mothers,
the troopers were decent-then got serious- about kids and drinking, and drugs- the mothers put on a slide show, of both their kids that died in high school- from drinking, and car accidents
it was very uncomfortable,,,but it hit home,,,too
i think schools should have more guest speakers from past students, (different ages) that went in the military, that went to colleges, that may be doctors, accountants, pharmarcists, store owners etc, show the kids their are rewards at the end of the tunnel,,,,encourage to go to college- stay away from partying too much
i also would like to see more "social responsibility" guest speakers (if kids can have classes of how to put a condom on a banana, they can have these)
have the manager of the welfare office come over-show statistics about what happens with unwanted pregnancies, what happens with the mothers, that they usually have no father around, and she's trying to raise 1-3 kids while working a part time job,,,, her life choices was all compromised by a few bad decisions
i think a womans abuse shelter should also bring a couple battered woman over and discuss domestic violence - what it is, and how it rips families apart- with a strong emphasis on male rage/or cycling abuse
how to recognize and stop it-
these are very very formative years-very impressionable, id throw alot of diversity at the students-non traditional field trips, guest speakers, etc,
i'll never forget an answer from my history professor in college- we were discussing the reconstruction period-where business was flourishing- one student asked him a business question, and the professor answered "i am a history major, i dont care about business" and in that statement, it sums up why certain curriculums are the way they are- teachers are teachers, not business owners, not life-skill managers, or coaches- they may not care if a kid has the slightest idea about balancing a checkbook- or what it takes to rent an apartment
It should be elective OR it needs to start in elementary school. Beginning a foreign language in the eighth or ninth grade is relatively useless, and our culture is such that these classes are just time-fillers.
Now a global cultures class? I could get behind that, as long as it studies culture at a deeper level than, "Spaniards have a daily siesta. Germans wear lederhosen."
Yes it is better to start in elementary school but to start learning a foreign language is not too late.
Ya right. You could write the same thing on just about any course. However, which courses are the most important? The student would take those excel skills on to college and the workplace.
Uhm, no.
I use excel everyday. I teach my students to use it in literally a few days as part of a research course.
It does not remotely warrant a MANDATORY course. Elective, sure. Mandatory, no.
Well, it's not that abstract to see where fallacies can be used. It's not that hard to see how appeal to tradition is not logical evidence. Deductive logic is fairly abstract, but so is a lot of math and poem analysis. Logic is one skill I do see lacking in soooooo many people though. I don't know if they would comprehend it if they had a course on it in high school, but maybe they would remember a little. I think this class would be really beneficial if the students had to debate each other; they would then be forced to analyze each others arguments and sources so students could really see how important these things are.
About biology, why not just have a human anatomy/nutrition/drugs class instead of learning about the Krebs cycle?
They can take them if they want to with electives. But if we force math and science, such as trig and physics, we lose opportunities for logic, geography, and finance, which DO benefit most everyone. Take trig for example, it's useful for advance calculus and advanced geometry. But people either use these regularly or not at all, which to me means it should be taught in college instead of high school. We can't have both mandatory precalc classes and mandatory statistics classes. Statistics is used more now than even calc I would dare say, so that should be emphasized in high shcool.
Mandatory personal finance is lacking for sure. Combine Excel work into that class. Simple fix.
And basic economics concepts could be put into the human geography class. Economics is one of the main reasons for migration, land use change, city landscapes...
About public speaking, sure it's a nightmare for people, but if they ever do have to speak publicly, it would be better for them to be devastated in high school rather than out in their career.
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Originally Posted by gardener34
Public speaking / speech / diction... whatever you call it. Used to be mandatory, now they are all about pushing STEM which is great. But some of these kids talk like they have marbles in their mouths. In this class should be included basic interviewing skills, including talking on the phone/how to answer a phone, phone interviews, etc.
Consumer sciences, this was required in my h.s. to graduate. (private) it was how to balance a checkbook, how to fill out your taxes, about stocks and basic investments, learning about basic economics, basic budget balancing, basic consumer tactics (comparison shopping, bait and switch tactics, etc.)... it was awesome, and I learned a lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryleeII
How to balance/manage a checking account!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mainebrokerman
good answers- and lets not assume just because the info is online, and easy to get, that kids will find it and learn from it..
if i were setting up a curriculum..... it would be more business based.... business math... ask a recent high school grad. that did well in math,,,what's the difference between mark-up and margin? and give an example.....
since most of the private sector sells goods or services, you would think this is important- but the curriculum is made up from teachers, to most others that have NOT worked in the private sector..
I don't know where to start with this stuff. We're supposed to take most of the academics out of the curriculum, make them electives at best, and fill the curriculum with stuff like balancing a checkbook? I do recall learning that in about 8th grade, back in the Pleistocene era when I went to school (Class of 1967). My kids had a unit about same in 6th, I believe, back in the 90s.
Public speaking was not required in my high school, though I took it. A communications class was required when my kids were in HS (class of 2002 and 2005). One of my kids took traditional public speaking, and one took intro to theater, where she basically learned the same stuff.
Interviewing skills, etc, can be taught in an hour or two. Most schools have resources a student can investigate for that, or it could be one session in some class. They sure as heck don't need that stuff to the exclusion of hard academics.
Not all kids are going on to a business career. Again, some of this stuff is not rocket science. My kids did something called "mini-society" in elementary school that incorporated costs, profit, etc.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 10-29-2013 at 08:40 AM..
Well, it's not that abstract to see where fallacies can be used. It's not that hard to see how appeal to tradition is not logical evidence. Deductive logic is fairly abstract, but so is a lot of math and poem analysis. Logic is one skill I do see lacking in soooooo many people though. I don't know if they would comprehend it if they had a course on it in high school, but maybe they would remember a little. I think this class would be really beneficial if the students had to debate each other; they would then be forced to analyze each others arguments and sources so students could really see how important these things are.
About biology, why not just have a human anatomy/nutrition/drugs class instead of learning about the Krebs cycle?
And that is the reality in many states. The mandatory class is life science, and can be met by anything from Bio 101 to a nutrition course.
The point is an remains making SPECIFIC classes mandatory is stupid.
Quote:
They can take them if they want to with electives. But if we force math and science, such as trig and physics, we lose opportunities for logic, geography, and finance, which DO benefit most everyone. Take trig for example, it's useful for advance calculus and advanced geometry. But people either use these regularly or not at all, which to me means it should be taught in college instead of high school. We can't have both mandatory precalc classes and mandatory statistics classes. Statistics is used more now than even calc I would dare say, so that should be emphasized in high shcool.
OMG, spare me.
The vast majority of states in this nation do not make TRIG mandatory. Same with physics, they might make a year of any physical science mandatory, but not physics.
Quote:
Mandatory personal finance is lacking for sure. Combine Excel work into that class. Simple fix.
And basic economics concepts could be put into the human geography class. Economics is one of the main reasons for migration, land use change, city landscapes...
About public speaking, sure it's a nightmare for people, but if they ever do have to speak publicly, it would be better for them to be devastated in high school rather than out in their career.
Maybe people should have a better grasp about what is or is not actually required in their state if they want to run about deciding what "should be mandatory".
BTW, forcing college bound kids to take a litany of mandatory classes (what are we up to now in this thread? 5 or 6?) is going to HURT them when it comes to taking AP classes and actually getting into college.
Why does logic have to be MANDATORY? Or finance? or Human geography? This is why electives exist.
For the lower end kids we should be focusing on reading, writing, and basic math before throwing them into a logic course. For the higher end kids, they don't need formal courses in things like Excel.
So literally no one benefits from making these things mandatory.
My dd 16 recently applied for a checking account with Wells Fargo. We felt they did an excellent job of educating her on how to handle the account, including what a 'bounced" check consists of, how overdraft fees are assessed, how to handle a debit card, etc. He even walked her through some scenarios of how being literally a day late and a dollar short can add up in hundreds in fees. I rather felt the young man at the bank was somewhat "taken" with my extremely attractive daughter, I wonder how he'd be with some ugly old hag---ie, her mother? Oh, well, at least she will be able to handle my pension checks when I'm hauled off to the nursing home
Wait, so your child learned how to do this outside of school just fine and now it is supposed to be a mandatory course?
Why?
Not everything is the responsibility of the public school.
i'll never forget an answer from my history professor in college- we were discussing the reconstruction period-where business was flourishing- one student asked him a business question, and the professor answered "i am a history major, i dont care about business" and in that statement, it sums up why certain curriculums are the way they are- teachers are teachers, not business owners, not life-skill managers, or coaches- they may not care if a kid has the slightest idea about balancing a checkbook- or what it takes to rent an apartment
You maybe unaware but teachers also own homes, balance checkbooks, etc. Parents have some responsibility do they not? Why are you unable to teach your own child how to balance a checkbook?
As for business, if a child wants to take an ELECTIVE on business sure, why does it have to be a mandatory class? My students go on to become scientists, engineers, and officers in the military. To offer your mandatory course on finance, we would have to eliminate something else. Should it be the AP courses the need for college? Should it be the internships where they make networking contacts they keep for their lifetime? What exactly should this students give up so they can be forced to take a business math course the vast majority of them will never need?
In the words of my 15 year old: "Personal finance is literally the most pointless class ever! It's stupid they're forcing all of us to take an entire year of it."
So there you have it folks.
So if he defaults on his student loans or credit cards 10 years later, I won't be footing the bill..
I thought most of my classes back in high school were pointless but still aimed to get A's and B's just for college..
^^I think the point is that 15 yos are not running households and this personal finance stuff is something they just can't relate to. I have said this many times over, both here on the ed forum and on parenting when people talk about "teaching" this stuff to kids.
Once a person gets an apt, they learn pretty quickly about deposits, utilities, and the like. Student loans are non-dischargeable in bankruptcy.
^^I think the point is that 15 yos are not running households and this personal finance stuff is something they just can't relate to. I have said this many times over, both here on the ed forum and on parenting when people talk about "teaching" this stuff to kids.
Once a person gets an apt, they learn pretty quickly about deposits, utilities, and the like. Student loans are non-dischargeable in bankruptcy.
This too.
Good point. Most 15 yos are 10+ years away from this stuff.
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I do recall learning that in about 8th grade, back in the Pleistocene era when I went to school (Class of 1967). My kids had a unit about same in 6th, I believe, back in the 90s.
