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Where does this notion come from that vocational schools are non-existent? No matter how much some people post and post and post again about vocational programs in their districts, in their areas, people post that we need to get vocational ed back in the schools! Just this morning I posted an article from the Denver Post about two such programs in Colorado. It's only 8 posts up! And look at your local community college's offerings. There are many certificate programs in vocations/trades offered.
A big difference today, which I said in my post, is that today's vocational programs, at least in my state, are integrated into the regular schools. For example, in my district, the students go to Vo-Tech part of the day and to their regular school for part of the day. That arrangement has been in effect for several years now, at least 10 years, actually. And, some of these classes carry college credit.
That isn't something that is seen in my state and no one would dare recommend that any child should focus on trades rather than chasing their dreams.
That isn't something that is seen in my state and no one would dare recommend that any child should focus on trades rather than chasing their dreams.
If you put it that way, I agree! However, if a student (by the time they're choosing a career they shouldn't be thought of as a child) really wants to be an auto mechanic, I'm fine with that.
I don't like these discussions about "college material" and who is and who isn't, etc. I have a BIL who was sort of railroaded into electronics in HS by his family. He went to some sort of vo-tech school. He did so well his teachers encouraged him to go to college to get a two year degree. He did so well there his professors encouraged him to get a BS in electrical engineering.
Why do we make kids go to school. Alot of these kids are just wasting taxpayers money. Letting kids choose would lead to better test scores, less distractions, less violence, and just a better environment. It would especially make a change in low income schools. I say if kids want to throw away their life, let them. I say make kids go from k to 7th grade then let them make their own choice.
Because its free babysitting. Who wants a bunch of kids on the streets all day long while their parents are away working!
Oh great, a 13 or 14 year old without the decision making skills of an adult and known scientifically to be impulsive, left to choose their future. That's what I want running around loose all day. Most countries require formal education to 16 years old. By then a student should be able to know what they like to do, what they are good at, and what they are not good at. I believe that we should have multiple education tracks like most European countries...they are tracked from the time they enter school, given milestone testing many times along the way, and directed into programs that meet their needs and interests. And some countries have a year of mandatory military service as well before going to college.
I wonder if it could if we deported all of the illegals taking jobs. This demographic would be looking for entry level jobs. The kind illegals now have.
I highly doubt the 15-18 demographic would do those jobs.
If you put it that way, I agree! However, if a student (by the time they're choosing a career they shouldn't be thought of as a child) really wants to be an auto mechanic, I'm fine with that.
I don't like these discussions about "college material" and who is and who isn't, etc. I have a BIL who was sort of railroaded into electronics in HS by his family. He went to some sort of vo-tech school. He did so well his teachers encouraged him to go to college to get a two year degree. He did so well there his professors encouraged him to get a BS in electrical engineering.
What if your BIL had been encouraged to follow his dreams and went to an obscure, unaccredited college and majored in theater arts or set design and took out a lot of debt in order to do that? I don't mean to imply that anyone is or isn't college material because, really, you never know... But I think that there are a lot of kids who need to be shown what their aptitudes are, need to be shown that they have high relative worth and they may not figure those things out on their own until it's too late from a practical perspective. It sounds like being encouraged into a tech vocation was a very good thing for your BIL... I seriously doubt that would be an isolated experience.
The graduation requirements for my district are college prep. Putting everyone on a college prep program is a problem. What is happening is we are dummying down the college prep courses so that everyone can pass and that is serving no one.
If that's true, than your school really is making a mistake. I think a sign of a progressive school is one that acknowledges the different life paths for students and helps them figure that out. If I were in your district, I would be working on finding someone on the school board and speaking with them frankly about the problem.
You said something in another post Ivory
Quote:
I wonder if it could if we deported all of the illegals taking jobs. This demographic would be looking for entry level jobs. The kind illegals now have.
, which is offensive on a few levels to me. First off, no one, including undocumented workers, actually enjoy doing the menial jobs that most of our legal population won't do. It's not that they are taking away jobs, it's that most people won't work that hard for that little pay. I find it hard to imagine any 16 year old I know willing to work 12 hours a day in a field picking fruit or vegetables. Do you truly think THAT is a viable alternative to some inner city kid?
If that's true, than your school really is making a mistake. I think a sign of a progressive school is one that acknowledges the different life paths for students and helps them figure that out. If I were in your district, I would be working on finding someone on the school board and speaking with them frankly about the problem.
But it's not just Ivory's individual school that's doing it. It's whole systems. It's whole states. While many states' websites pay lip service to a diversity of paths their students can choose to follow, the reality is that you still have tech-path students in much higher levels of classes than necessary. Anything can look good on paper and a web site, until you sit down with your counselor and they lay out the actual truth.
We want them to have multiple paths. All teachers feel this. Yes, there are some systems/states that have wonderful Vo-tech programs. But it doesn't take a genius to know that all states are not created equal, with equal SE demographics, tax-bases, etc. We keep hearing of examples of wonderful programs from other posters, but I'm sure it obvious to most that one state doesn't represent the entire nation. Yes, what goes on in my state doesn't represent the nation, but it sure as Hell resembles what's going on in many, many others. Why can't we be believed?
But it's not just Ivory's individual school that's doing it. It's whole systems. It's whole states. While many states' websites pay lip service to a diversity of paths their students can choose to follow, the reality is that you still have tech-path students in much higher levels of classes than necessary. Anything can look good on paper and a web site, until you sit down with your counselor and they lay out the actual truth.
We want them to have multiple paths. All teachers feel this. Yes, there are some systems/states that have wonderful Vo-tech programs. But it doesn't take a genius to know that all states are not created equal, with equal SE demographics, tax-bases, etc. We keep hearing of examples of wonderful programs from other posters, but I'm sure it obvious to most that one state doesn't represent the entire nation. Yes, what goes on in my state doesn't represent the nation, but it sure as Hell resembles what's going on in many, many others. Why can't we be believed?
I know that there are a lot of screwed up systems out there and there are also some good ones. It's frustrating when posters assume that because their school system is screwed up they must all be like that. In Pennsylvania, we have many small school districts and I think it's easier to make changes when you are dealing with just one high school. No matter how good a tech program is though, unless you change people's perception of trade jobs, it doesn't matter.
What if your BIL had been encouraged to follow his dreams and went to an obscure, unaccredited college and majored in theater arts or set design and took out a lot of debt in order to do that? I don't mean to imply that anyone is or isn't college material because, really, you never know... But I think that there are a lot of kids who need to be shown what their aptitudes are, need to be shown that they have high relative worth and they may not figure those things out on their own until it's too late from a practical perspective. It sounds like being encouraged into a tech vocation was a very good thing for your BIL... I seriously doubt that would be an isolated experience.
That wasn't his dream, so your scenario is irrelevant to the issue at hand. He was interested in math and science. There was no reason not to encourage him to take those courses and go where it took him.
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This demographic would be looking for entry level jobs. The kind illegals now have.
