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Advice from teachers would be especially appreciated.
I know this is a really difficult topic so I'll tread as carefully as possible.
Within a local suburban public elementary school the child of some friends is classmates with a little girl who has learning difficulties (the parents of the little girl told my friend she has ADD, some Autism spectrum difficulties and hearing problems). Most of the time the little girl is just fine and apparently very nice to everyone. However, over the last few weeks she has had two or three screaming, yelling, crayon throwing etc. episodes per week. The perception of my friends, who are level headed very well educated folks, is that the teacher spends a disproportionate amount of time with the little girl and the TA, who I guess is there full time or close, spends more than half of her time with the little girl.
At what point would you as a parent of one of the other kids take some sort of action?
At what point should the school remove the disruptive child?
My reference point is private catholic schools where this sort of thing would not be tolerated.
5 and 6 year olds scream and throw fits. Yours don't/didn't? They aren't mature enough to completely understand to be "good" all day at school. They don't completely understand to use their words to resolve issues. They are "me" centric and everything is about them and they want their way.
Beyond this age, no, screaming and fits shouldn't be happening, which is why I asked. It seems you're a little defensive about a simple question.
I would probably complain at this point; however, I doubt much will come of it. The current educational theory - and it is taught as fact, questioning it is not permitted as my wife found out - is that until there is physical danger to other children, mainstreaming is not only best it is the only morally correct option. Hell you can't even split into different level reading groups anymore. Learning disabilities, emotional problems, autism, deafness, blindness etc, none of those are seen as reasons for removing children from class. Which is crazy. It is bad for everyone. The kid with the problems is more likely to be a target of bullies because they are "different" and can take up so much time the other kids get angry, and everyone's education suffers because you often end up moving slightly too fast for the kids with disabilities, and too slow for everyone else.
I would advise them to have a frank conversation with the principal about their concerns, and about district policy. My guess is they will find out the standard "mainstream unless physical danger," policy holds, but then they will at least know what they are dealing with, and can weigh their options. Good luck.
I would probably complain at this point; however, I doubt much will come of it. The current educational theory - and it is taught as fact, questioning it is not permitted as my wife found out - is that until there is physical danger to other children, mainstreaming is not only best it is the only morally correct option. Hell you can't even split into different level reading groups anymore. Learning disabilities, emotional problems, autism, deafness, blindness etc, none of those are seen as reasons for removing children from class. Which is crazy. It is bad for everyone. The kid with the problems is more likely to be a target of bullies because they are "different" and can take up so much time the other kids get angry, and everyone's education suffers because you often end up moving slightly too fast for the kids with disabilities, and too slow for everyone else.
I would advise them to have a frank conversation with the principal about their concerns, and about district policy. My guess is they will find out the standard "mainstream unless physical danger," policy holds, but then they will at least know what they are dealing with, and can weigh their options. Good luck.
They did go the the teacher and then principal and were told almost verbatim what you said, although very nicely, and with the caveat that the little girl throwing crayons was viewed as only potential physical danger. Further, if any child threw anything at someone or hurt someone even a little that would cross the threshold whereby a child might be removed given previous unwanted behavior.
My friends are looking at private schools for next semester - which is really going to be tough to pull off with little notice.
5 and 6 year olds scream and throw fits. Yours don't/didn't? They aren't mature enough to completely understand to be "good" all day at school. They don't completely understand to use their words to resolve issues. They are "me" centric and everything is about them and they want their way.
Beyond this age, no, screaming and fits shouldn't be happening, which is why I asked. It seems you're a little defensive about a simple question.
We didn't tolerate violent fits when our kids were 5 or 6.
I'm not defensive at all I simply misread your intended point.
5 and 6 year olds scream and throw fits. Yours don't/didn't? They aren't mature enough to completely understand to be "good" all day at school. They don't completely understand to use their words to resolve issues. They are "me" centric and everything is about them and they want their way.
Beyond this age, no, screaming and fits shouldn't be happening, which is why I asked. It seems you're a little defensive about a simple question.
Uh, just no. Sorry, but no. I say this as a mom of a kid with ADHD and one who is around children this age a lot: screaming and throwing fits is what 3-year-olds who have missed their naps do. 5 year olds should be able to make it through a school day without screaming, and fit throwing should be grounds for going to the principal's office.
As for the OP's question...them's the breaks in public school, I think. There are arguments on both sides of this vis a vis mainstreaming, but the battle is over as far as public policy is concerned. The kid stays until they are a danger to someone. If you don't like it, fork over your own money for private.
Uh, just no. Sorry, but no. I say this as a mom of a kid with ADHD and one who is around children this age a lot: screaming and throwing fits is what 3-year-olds who have missed their naps do. 5 year olds should be able to make it through a school day without screaming, and fit throwing should be grounds for going to the principal's office.
As for the OP's question...them's the breaks in public school, I think. There are arguments on both sides of this vis a vis mainstreaming, but the battle is over as far as public policy is concerned. The kid stays until they are a danger to someone. If you don't like it, fork over your own money for private.
Save our son's first and second grades our kids have always been in private schools. And this sort of thing is a top reason why. I want and have been willing to pay for my kids to go to school with kids who more or less all want to be there and who are able control themselves.
but -
Not everyone can afford private schools. Kids in public schools should not have precious learning time hampered by kids who can't control themselves.
Our friends have been on the phone with every private school close to them. We'll see how that works out.
ETA - I totally agree with your first paragraph. Kids at 5 and 6 routinely throwing fits is totally unacceptable.
Mainstreaming is complete and utter BS. It doesn't help the SpEd kids and it is a huge classroom distraction. As a parent, I would complain once the ADD kid became a moderate to significant distraction in the classroom (ie, taking a disproportionate amount of teacher's time & attention; making it hard for my child to concentrate & get work done; making my child feel unsafe). Unfortunately, the public schools' hands are tied. They don want lawsuits on behalf of the SpEd kids.
My SIL is a teacher in a highly regarded area district , but in a school with a high percentage of SpEd kids in mainstream classrooms and you would not believe the stories. She has had children bring household items to school and then proceed to throw them at her while she tried to keep teaching- I remember a metal toothbrush holder and a cucumber in particular, but there were multiple other instances. The district never removed the kid from her class (5th grade!!) but they did say he/as couldn't bring a backpack anymore.
She had another student a few years ago who she seriously thought was possessed by demons (and she isn't a crazy/looney woman!) His eyes would roll back and he would start to scream in voices/ tongues.
Really unbelievable stuff. I felt bad for her for having to teach /manage through these situations but I feel even worse for the 15-17 "normal" kids in the same class who have to learn in that environment.
If we ever come across this situation in public schools, I will politely but strongly demand to change classrooms/teachers. If that doesn't happen- private school ASAP.
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