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Tenure is nothing more than due process. It's a right that, quite honestly, every professional in the country should have. Rarely does anyone complain about how "difficult" it is to fire bad police officers or bad firefighters, let alone bad lawyers or bad doctors. In fact it's rare for the average Joe to even imply that they can determine a "bad" employee in any of the above professions, except in the most extreme circumstances. Yet everyone seems convinced that they know of dozens of bad teachers and that this is an epidemic in the education system.
This post is beyond awesome. And very true. the only thing harder thing harder than someone finding a good job is an employer getting (and retaining) good people to work for them, and STAY.
It may be true in certain places but not everywhere. Remember, tenure means different things in different places. Here, it's basically a guaranteed job after completing two years of working. It takes years and way too much money to fire a tenured teacher her (even for child molestation) so that it is rarely ever done. People here do complain about how hard it is to fire cops, too. Cops and teachers (here maybe not other places) are extraordinarily difficult to fire.
It may be true in certain places but not everywhere. Remember, tenure means different things in different places. Here, it's basically a guaranteed job after completing two years of working. It takes years and way too much money to fire a tenured teacher her (even for child molestation) so that it is rarely ever done. People here do complain about how hard it is to fire cops, too. Cops and teachers (here maybe not other places) are extraordinarily difficult to fire.
Not that it isn't seen some other places, but that is a California problem. All employees - government/non-government, high wage/low wage, - are harder to fire there than most states because of your state laws. Any time Joe's Carpeting Cleaning has a hard time being able to fire someone because of laws, it is going to impossible to fire public employees because the government is supposed to be the model employer.
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It may be true in certain places but not everywhere. Remember, tenure means different things in different places. Here, it's basically a guaranteed job after completing two years of working. It takes years and way too much money to fire a tenured teacher her (even for child molestation) so that it is rarely ever done. People here do complain about how hard it is to fire cops, too. Cops and teachers (here maybe not other places) are extraordinarily difficult to fire.
Total myth. (a proudly Union teacher here btw) It's not difficult to fire anyone, even tenured teachers. But have the paper trail and have your case built. AND DON'T OFFER A RESIGNATION just to make it quick. Too many teachers who have done "very bad things" get offered a resignation letter by a weak administrator or school board that doesn't want the press, just wants it to go away, or doesn't want to fight the battle. Happens WAY too often...probably nine out of ten times. The one thing that will scare a school administrator more than even a teacher doing very bad things? The press getting wind of it and talking about the bad teachers that he hired and has in his district, under his watch.
Legally, if they resign, other school districts can't legally ask for specific reasons for the resignation (since he's now "not guilty," he resigned). The result? The bad teachers get recirculated into districts that didn't do enough background digging into why he or she got let go. Happens ALL the time. New districts can ask "in code" questions such as "would you rehire this person?" But all the old admin is allowed to say is "No." (and not," Oh my God, Hell no...are you kidding?") but too few HR people or admins even ask about that..they just need warm bodies to work for them.
I know of two teachers doing sexual stuff with students, and one bus driver that drove a bus full of kindergarteners backwards down a busy highway because she missed her highway exit, who were offered resignations or retirement. No charges. The two that were not offered retirement were offered a resignation letter, took it quickly and gratefully, and are now working in better districts and making more money, since those new districts didn't bother checking about the weak-ass resignation. Horrible. Makes all teachers look bad. It's not a union thing most of the time with this kind of stuff, it's an administrator thing. No cojones. Unions will circle the wagons and protect their own, due process and all that, but they'll lose everytime (or sometimes back off) if it's terrible charges. but the admin needs to have their stuff together, and not have a weak case. I love my union, and am grateful for it, but also realize that it is doing what the person pays union dues for. It's due process and it gets played out. Hopefully for the better in cases like I described.
To school administrators wanting to cut truly terrible teachers (and especially terrible human beings) loose...FIGHT THE BATTLE!
50-70k is a respectable range for in experienced teacher. In my opinion. Maybe a little bit more depending on the type of students they they teach gifted&talented, and special needs
I can't answer the poll because it's too broadly worded.
Should a 23 year old graduate in rural Mississippi make the same as someone in Metro New York with 20+ years of experience? No.
So I'll just say that teachers should make about what other white-collar workers with 4- or 6-year degrees make, with comparable experience in the same community.
Teacher salaries are public. I've looked up teachers in my original home town and found that teachers with 20+ years experience are making around 90k which seems about right, given the community and the cost of living there.
I can't answer the poll because it's too broadly worded.
Should a 23 year old graduate in rural Mississippi make the same as someone in Metro New York with 20+ years of experience? No.
So I'll just say that teachers should make about what other white-collar workers with 4- or 6-year degrees make, with comparable experience in the same community.
Teacher salaries are public. I've looked up teachers in my original home town and found that teachers with 20+ years experience are making around 90k which seems about right, given the community and the cost of living there.
That doesn't sound bad. Where is the hometown? That's more than we are making here in NoVA/DC metro and I think our cost of living is fairly high.
What would you pay somebody who works 180 days a year?
Somebody who works from 8AM to maybe 3PM with a 45 minute lunch and 6-8 minutes between 6 classes?
Gets medical insurance?
Gets summers off, all holidays off and sometimes goes on field trips or shows movies in class? How about 10-12 paid sick days per year?
Their curriculum is already in place?
They teach to state tests?
If their students do not learn they get passed on to the next teacher?
Has tenure and can get fired after a 2 1/2 year paperwork/observation process?
PRICELESS JOB
What would you pay somebody who works 180 days a year?
Somebody who works from 8AM to maybe 3PM with a 45 minute lunch and 6-8 minutes between 6 classes?
Gets medical insurance?
Gets summers off, all holidays off and sometimes goes on field trips or shows movies in class? How about 10-12 paid sick days per year?
Their curriculum is already in place?
They teach to state tests?
If their students do not learn they get passed on to the next teacher?
Has tenure and can get fired after a 2 1/2 year paperwork/observation process?
PRICELESS JOB
IF I knew someone with that job I still don't know if I'd have an answer.
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