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I know many university teachers with PhDs who are paid less than elementary school teachers and that's just not right.
Why isn't right? Having done both, trust me, the elementary teacher has a far harder job, spends more of their own funds, and works more hours. I will grant the university tract is more cut-throat, but that is because people so desperately want those jobs.
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Teaching AP chemistry or pre-calculus is much harder and requires more education than teaching the alphabet and times tables. I don't think all HS teachers should make more, but those with higher levels of education teaching college preparatory classes should be rewarded accordingly.
Seriously? You can't have one without the other - isn't that plain to see? If a kid doesn't know how to do the times tables or knows the alphabet (by the way, most kids entering the school system know the alphabet courtesy of basic nursery rhymes. teachers (unless there is some sort of parental problem or learning disability) teach kids to read in kindergarten) how will they ever know how to do calculus or AP whatever? Teaching a kid how to master the basics, at their grade level, can be just as challenging as teaching an older kid a harder version of the same subject.
I can't believe you would actually grade pay based on a subject level...
I'm not in the teacher's association in my district, but if I were, I would expect them to advocate for my salary and benefits. Just like the police, firemen, and carpenter's unions. Teachers have to have at least four years of post secondary education and many have more than that.
And from what I understand, NY has a pretty high COL, right? What kind of home would an average person be able to afford on a salary of $120,000 in NY?
- Unions advocating for worker's rights for fair hours, health benefits, and work environments are fine but when it involves the public sector and asking for more money (way higher than the national avg, no less), you are taking money from the tax-paying public. When you DEMAND higher salaries or else you'll walk out on your job (long island rail road most recently with potential to strand hundreds of thousands a day), then there's a problem that shouldn't sit well with the common taxpayer. Laws created to protect these union workers allowing them to strike is ridiculous. How can I do the same if I don't like my salary as a tech guy? Right? I can't. Unions for public sector workers have overstepped their boundaries - and should not even exist because they serve us and are able to hold us hostage. Again recently, the police unions here were given raises [by demand] and in turn our county had to install speed cameras to create revenue to pay for it. Anything wrong with that picture?
- With the high COL here, it doesn't mean one person should be able to afford a decent house. That is why dual income is nearly required unless you have a high-paying career. It shouldn't be the other way around where you are paid a lot just because you need it to live here. To the tune of +$20k/yr for region-adjustment is fine. A FAMILY income of $130k does just fine here even in a high COL location. Yet you have teachers making 3x what they make in other areas of the country.
- Teachers earning their masters degrees still should not command $120k. You can compare a masters in education to a masters in most other fields and it is nowhere near as strenuous. Pay should be commensurate with experience, obviously, but also supply and skill involved. Teachers are lining up for jobs here. Again, I'd ask - which teacher wouldn't be happy with $70k/yr?
- This doesn't even touch on their pensions or the district administrators (nearly 1 per town) making $300k+ per year. That's right, the same as many for-profit CEOs. What's more, salaries don't even hinge on performance as the poor-performing districts have the same median salaries.
Teacher's are being paid well in numerous states, such as in New Jersey. With a bachelor degree and 10+ years of teaching, you could easily make more than $80K per year.
Teacher's are paid good since they have summers off, and a week off for Christmas and Easter and numerous other days. 7 hour work day is the normal as well. Great benfits, including health, and pension.
A history teacher with 15 year's of experience was making $105 K in a school districts. It's way too much for a teacher! Sorry but true...
Teaching is not a real carrer goal for everybody, It more like an Public job to be filled momentarely. Teachers are not meant to be home owners, and things like that unless they have another quality. Like my teacher in school actually has three jobs and receives a bigger paycheck for it. All the jobs are in the same building. That is how a teacher should be thinking if not then many college people in their final year are working as teachers/professors/ and so forth.
- Unions advocating for worker's rights for fair hours, health benefits, and work environments are fine but when it involves the public sector and asking for more money (way higher than the national avg, no less), you are taking money from the tax-paying public. When you DEMAND higher salaries or else you'll walk out on your job (long island rail road most recently with potential to strand hundreds of thousands a day), then there's a problem that shouldn't sit well with the common taxpayer. Laws created to protect these union workers allowing them to strike is ridiculous. How can I do the same if I don't like my salary as a tech guy? Right? I can't. Unions for public sector workers have overstepped their boundaries - and should not even exist because they serve us and are able to hold us hostage. Again recently, the police unions here were given raises [by demand] and in turn our county had to install speed cameras to create revenue to pay for it. Anything wrong with that picture?
Absolutely, you can. It may not work, but you can do it. Or, you could go work for your competitor for higher pay. Currently, education salaries are fixed and, except in highly populated areas, there usually isn't a competitor in reasonable driving distance. Interestingly, when there is more than one public school system in driving distance or a robust private school system, teachers tend to get higher salaries and benefits.
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Originally Posted by ovi8
- With the high COL here, it doesn't mean one person should be able to afford a decent house. That is why dual income is nearly required unless you have a high-paying career. It shouldn't be the other way around where you are paid a lot just because you need it to live here. To the tune of +$20k/yr for region-adjustment is fine. A FAMILY income of $130k does just fine here even in a high COL location. Yet you have teachers making 3x what they make in other areas of the country.
I moved here from an area where the average income was about $10,000 less than half the average income here - that works out to about 39% of the average income here. Teachers salaries, however, were 70% of the average teacher's salary here. In other words, even though this area pays about $30,000 more than there, I could live significantly better there. Significantly. A $20,000 regional adjustment would not be enough. As it is, the actual roughly $30,000 it currently is, isn't enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovi8
.....the district administrators (nearly 1 per town) making $300k+ per year. That's right, the same as many for-profit CEOs. What's more, salaries don't even hinge on performance as the poor-performing districts have the same median salaries.
Probably most people on this board will agree with you here. However, I don't, depending on the size of the district. Some of those districts have thousands of employees. In the area I came from, superintendents generally made between $85,000 - $125,000, not really a mind boggling amount considering their responsibilities.
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Spoken like someone who never worked in education. Those jobs aren't added responsibility, they're just different responsibility.
I left teaching because of the low pay. As a nurse, we get paid more when we add certifications, we get raises just about yearly, we get overtime, we get on call pay, and I work fewer days than I did as a teacher. I also get more days off (1 a month, as opposed to 5 a year in teaching) Also, in my first year of nursing (!) I will make about $10,000 more than I did as a teacher after 5 years of working. Best of all, the public doesn't *%&^ and moan about what a selfish slob I am for wanting to have a decent, middle class lifestyle.
If you want smart, capable people to teach your children, you need to pay up. If not, enjoy the bottom of the barrel.
What a great post.
Teachers are sometimes overpaid, sometimes underpaid. It varies wildly from state to state and region to region.
But I;m so tired of the public pointing out the 70 year old teacher with 35 yrs experience and a PhD and saying "look how much teachers make." That kind of experience is definitely the exception.
Not one person here, if it was their kid that was a teacher would say, "My lazy kid gets summers off and should make WAY less money for her education and hard work." Nope. It would be nothing but pride. So why do we rip teachers and their moderate salaries and deserved perks to shreds?
But comparable position, with a masters and 15 years? You'll make more in medical or business.
And this $100K salary stuff for teachers? Not here in New Mexico. Or MOST states in the US.
But if I'm in Jersey or NY or Mass, I'd better make that much for the higher cost of living.
Teacher's are being paid well in numerous states, such as in New Jersey. With a bachelor degree and 10+ years of teaching, you could easily make more than $80K per year.
Teacher's are paid good since they have summers off, and a week off for Christmas and Easter and numerous other days. 7 hour work day is the normal as well. Great benfits, including health, and pension.
A history teacher with 15 year's of experience was making $105 K in a school districts. It's way too much for a teacher! Sorry but true...
I'm not saying you are, but many seem to take these examples and blanket them across the whole profession.
As I mentioned before, I am in a Northern Virginia suburb of DC, known for having one of the higher costs of living in the country. Ten years with a BS/BA earns a salary of $55,299. Fifteen years and you're up to $64,732. Thirty years and a MA+ 30 approaches $100k. I don't think that's outrageous when a one bedroom apartment can easily cost around $20k a year with a median gross rent in 2011: $1,754. For my zip, according to City Data, the Estimated median house/condo value in 2011: $437,700. The Average Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) in 2004: $71,281 (Individual Income Tax Returns.
As far as the "great benefits, including health", I'd like to know what is considered "great". I figure health benefits cost a teacher with a family about $5k-6k a year, depending on the plan. It's much more expensive if you are retired. A retiree pays between $400 and $543 a month for an individual plan (not counting dental).
7 hour work day is the normal as well. Great benfits, including health, and pension.
Contract time ALONE is 8.5 hours. Add in the mandatory meetings and trainings that extend beyond that. Add in the prep and data analysis time that is expected. Add in the before and after school tutoring (OUTSIDE contract hours, no additional pay). During the school day, you are ON every minute, especially in elementary. Add in the parents who want to be called in the evenings.
The health is a paid health plan, just like many other jobs. I am on dh's plan as HIS is much cheaper. The pension is IN LIEU of Social Security, so it's a wash. And, oh yeah, we pay a HIGHER % into it than we would with SS!
Absolutely, you can. It may not work, but you can do it. Or, you could go work for your competitor for higher pay. Currently, education salaries are fixed and, except in highly populated areas, there usually isn't a competitor in reasonable driving distance. Interestingly, when there is more than one public school system in driving distance or a robust private school system, teachers tend to get higher salaries and benefits.
I moved here from an area where the average income was about $10,000 less than half the average income here - that works out to about 39% of the average income here. Teachers salaries, however, were 70% of the average teacher's salary here. In other words, even though this area pays about $30,000 more than there, I could live significantly better there. Significantly. A $20,000 regional adjustment would not be enough. As it is, the actual roughly $30,000 it currently is, isn't enough.
Probably most people on this board will agree with you here. However, I don't, depending on the size of the district. Some of those districts have thousands of employees. In the area I came from, superintendents generally made between $85,000 - $125,000, not really a mind boggling amount considering their responsibilities.
Thank you for pointing out the obvious so that I didn't have to bother.
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