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I wouldn't do anything. Teachers are not required to give A's. An A should be exceptional. If that teacher doesn't have any exceptional students that year they don't have any exceptional students that year. I'd be more concerned with the number failing than the number getting A's. I have years where I give out few A's and years when I give out a bunch. The number of A's I give depends on my students not me. You see grades are EARNED not given.
This year I will have a lot of A's in chemistry. Based on your logic I need to make the class harder because I'm "giving out" too many A's. It's not me. It's the students. I have a group this year that is determined to do well in my class AND they out scored previous classes on the pre test by about 10 points. Usually I have fewer A's than I have right now and a lot more E's. I have only a few students failing chemistry this year which is odd. IMO all but one is misplaced. He just won't do anything and he will fail as a result. The others should be in the lower chemistry class. This is a weird year in my chemistry classes but I will not change my curriculum because I have more A's than usual. The students who are performing at that level have earned their A's even if it does look like there are too many of them.
The poster you are replying to asked, "What are you supposed to do in a class where the teacher literally does not give an A to any student, regardless of performance?"
All that does it put students in your district at a disadvantage. If somebody in your district earns an 80 and it goes on their transcript as a C, while somebody from another district earns an 80 and it goes on their transcript as a B, all other things being equal, colleges are going to accept the student with the B.
No it doesn't. We challenge our students everyday, in many ways, and this is well known by college admissions offices nationwide. A B student in our district is going to get into the same schools A students do from other districts. Our regular A average students are going to the ivies and MIT.
Because not all things are equal.
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I have had teachers openly admit that they do not give A's.
You frequently misunderstand contextual clues, as evidenced in many other situations, for example the one where you thought the girl in the Dunkin' Donuts commercial was trying to set the man up for a sexual harassment claim. I have said on occasion when asked "ya, I don't GIVE As". That contextual clue, of the emphasis on the "give" meant the majority of students understood that they need to earn them. It is just as likely as not that you are missing the finer point of communication in these situations as you have a habit of doing.
That is not you fault per se, but it is also not the other persons fault. The problem lies in your inability to understand these things and then use it to assign others blame for all the slights you feel you have received.
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You were never my teacher. You were never in a classroom with me. So you have no business judging whether or not I deserved certain grades. You keep using the same cliches over and over.
No one "deserves certain grades" that isn't how eduction is even supposed to work. You either earn them or you don't. It has nothing to do with what you feel entitled to.
I wouldn't do anything. Teachers are not required to give A's. An A should be exceptional. If that teacher doesn't have any exceptional students that year they don't have any exceptional students that year. I'd be more concerned with the number failing than the number getting A's. I have years where I give out few A's and years when I give out a bunch. The number of A's I give depends on my students not me. You see grades are EARNED not given.
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Mostly I agree. But I will tell you the story of "Mrs. Vamoose" who taught 7th grade math. Year after year her kids had the higher D/F rate...significantly so. And she always blamed the kids. But since the computer was randomly assigning classes, after a while we had to take a closer look at the teacher, instead of just at the kids. And, BTW, her classes always had worse performances on state exams.
You frequently misunderstand contextual clues, as evidenced in many other situations, for example the one where you thought the girl in the Dunkin' Donuts commercial was trying to set the man up for a sexual harassment claim. I have said on occasion when asked "ya, I don't GIVE As". That contextual clue, of the emphasis on the "give" meant the majority of students understood that they need to earn them. It is just as likely as not that you are missing the finer point of communication in these situations as you have a habit of doing.
No one "deserves certain grades" that isn't how eduction is even supposed to work. You either earn them or you don't. It has nothing to do with what you feel entitled to.
In this case he is correct. There is no misunderstanding in those classes. When the teacher says "I don't give A's it means no one will get an A in my class regardless of performance. YOU may mean EARN but there are plenty of teachers who will assign 89.9999 but will not assign an A. If you've never had one of those consider yourself lucky. I've had them and there are a lot more out there than you're willing to admit. They take a sick pride in "no one gets an A in my class" and in knocking down a GPA.
The poster you are replying to asked, "What are you supposed to do in a class where the teacher literally does not give an A to any student, regardless of performance?"
You did not answer that question.
Yes I did. If no one earns an A then no one gets an A. A's are earned not given. I set the A level in my classes. Some years I have a lot of A's and some years I don't give a single A. It depends on my students. If none of the students earn an A then none of the students earn an A. I don't care if a teacher never gives A's. That just means that no one ever performs at the A level. I think I'm giving all the A's for the next 5 years this year, lol. My A level happens to be achievable for a good student. Teachers have every right to reserve A's for the exceptional student ESPECIALLY in AP classes which are often weighted.
I had a professor who never gave A's in college. To get an A in his class you needed to have a 97 average. (80% was the bottom of the D range in his class). I got an 80 on the final which cost me an A in the class. That's on me not him. I had a 98 going into the final and I blew it on the final. I knew what I had done the second I walked out the door but it was too late. I did not perform at an A level so I got a B (not even a B+ a flat B).
The requirements for an A are the requirements for an A. Is the bar set high if it's rare for a student to earn an A? Yes but that's ok. It gives you something to reach for. I may not have gotten the A I wanted but I learned a lot in Dr. F's class trying. He had every right to set the bar high. Most years he did not give a single A. That's ok. It just means no one performed at an A level in his class. Teachers are not required to give A's. I have years where I don't give. This year I'm giving a lot. If teachers who don't give A's need to make their classes easier so they give more wouldn't teachers who give a lot of A's need to make their classes harder so they give fewer A's? I'm not changing the way I grade this year in spite of the high number of A's I'm giving because I know my bar is set high enough. I just happen to have a really competitive class this year. I hear next year's class is a bunch of slackers. (I'm always amazed at how classes have personalities. This year's 11th graders work their butts off and really try to learn. Their grades reflect that. My 10th graders are another story. 1/4th of them just don't give a rats ass. Next year I'm going to have a record number of failures in chemistry.)
The question I would be asking if a teacher never gives A's is how many students are failing. If few fail, there's no issue. The teacher just has the bar set high and that is ok. A B in such a teacher's class is something to be proud of.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 01-04-2017 at 09:07 AM..
In this case he is correct. There is no misunderstanding in those classes. When the teacher says "I don't give A's it means no one will get an A in my class regardless of performance. YOU may mean EARN but there are plenty of teachers who will assign 89.9999 but will not assign an A. If you've never had one of those consider yourself lucky. I've had them and there are a lot more out there than you're willing to admit. They take a sick pride in "no one gets an A in my class" and in knocking down a GPA.
There is nothing wrong with a teacher reserving an A for exceptional performance. A teacher would have a very hard time justifying not giving an A to a student with a 98 average in the class and such a student would have a good argument to take to the school board or dean as the case may be. As I talked about above, Dr F. never gave A's. It was extremely rare for someone to hold a 97 average after the final. I would have done it if I hadn't switched two formulas but I switched them so I didn't do it.
There is no requirement that a teacher or professor must make an A attainable. What is required for an A simply must make sense. I get why Dr. F. had such high standards. His class was not for slackers. And the simple fix for this is to simply avoid the more challenging teacher/professor if you are chasing grades instead of learning.
My question here is does this work both ways? If a teacher who never gives A's should make their class easier to give A's, should a teacher who give A's on a regular basis make their class harder to give fewer A's? Seriously. I just put in the grades from my last chemistry test and the most common grade was an A. Averages are in the high 80's. Should I make my tests harder so that the average is in the mid 70's? IMO the answer is no. What constitutes an A in my class should not change based on whether or not my students achieve it. I happen to have a lot of A students this year. It's not me. It's them and I know it. Next year they'll be complaining I don't give enough A's, lol. Three years ago I was accused of single handedly reducing the number of valedictorians from 10 to 3. That's how many A's I gave in 5 chemistry classes.
A's are earned. There is no requirement that a teacher must give A's. I'd be more concerned with class averages for appropriately placed students not whether or not a teacher gives A's.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 01-04-2017 at 09:59 AM..
I wouldn't do anything. Teachers are not required to give A's. An A should be exceptional. If that teacher doesn't have any exceptional students that year they don't have any exceptional students that year. I'd be more concerned with the number failing than the number getting A's. I have years where I give out few A's and years when I give out a bunch. The number of A's I give depends on my students not me. You see grades are EARNED not given.
This year I will have a lot of A's in chemistry. Based on your logic I need to make the class harder because I'm "giving out" too many A's. It's not me. It's the students. I have a group this year that is determined to do well in my class AND they out scored previous classes on the pre test by about 10 points. Usually I have fewer A's than I have right now and a lot more E's. I have only a few students failing chemistry this year which is odd. IMO all but one is misplaced. He just won't do anything and he will fail as a result. The others should be in the lower chemistry class. This is a weird year in my chemistry classes but I will not change my curriculum because I have more A's than usual. The students who are performing at that level have earned their A's even if it does look like there are too many of them.
The poster you are replying to asked, "What are you supposed to do in a class where the teacher literally does not give an A to any student, regardless of performance?"
No it doesn't. We challenge our students everyday, in many ways, and this is well known by college admissions offices nationwide. A B student in our district is going to get into the same schools A students do from other districts. Our regular A average students are going to the ivies and MIT.
Because not all things are equal.
The funny thing is, whenever I see anybody locally who is accepted into ever Ivy League school, it's usually a minority student from a poor district; districts that people like you wouldn't even consider sending your kids to. They are never from districts such as yours.
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You frequently misunderstand contextual clues, as evidenced in many other situations, for example the one where you thought the girl in the Dunkin' Donuts commercial was trying to set the man up for a sexual harassment claim. I have said on occasion when asked "ya, I don't GIVE As". That contextual clue, of the emphasis on the "give" meant the majority of students understood that they need to earn them. It is just as likely as not that you are missing the finer point of communication in these situations as you have a habit of doing.
That is not you fault per se, but it is also not the other persons fault. The problem lies in your inability to understand these things and then use it to assign others blame for all the slights you feel you have received.
Again, you don't know me, and you keep making assumptions about me. Assumptions which are wrong in this case.
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No one "deserves certain grades" that isn't how eduction is even supposed to work. You either earn them or you don't. It has nothing to do with what you feel entitled to.
If somebody earns an A, then that student "deserves" and A and should be "entitled to" an A.
My high school did not include senior year grades in GPA calculation, but did send the first 2 quarter grades to colleges. In AP Chemistry, for the 2nd quarter, I earned an A on every exam and every assignment, which were the only two factors in his official grading policy (it did not include anything subjective, such as "class participation"). However, for the 2nd quarter, he gave me a C+. When I questioned why he gave me a C+ when I earned an A on every exam and assignment, his response was "because I don't like you". I spoke to my guidance counselor, who said she would talk to the teacher. She talked to him. And told me that he and I have a personality conflict, and that there is nothing that I can do about it.
I'm sure that you and the other teachers will defend this teacher, as you always do.
Last edited by mitsguy2001; 01-04-2017 at 10:23 AM..
In this case he is correct. There is no misunderstanding in those classes. When the teacher says "I don't give A's it means no one will get an A in my class regardless of performance. YOU may mean EARN but there are plenty of teachers who will assign 89.9999 but will not assign an A. If you've never had one of those consider yourself lucky. I've had them and there are a lot more out there than you're willing to admit. They take a sick pride in "no one gets an A in my class" and in knocking down a GPA.
Exactly! LKB and Ivory keep dodging the question, since they won't admit that not every teacher is perfect.
Yes I did. If no one earns an A then no one gets an A. A's are earned not given. I set the A level in my classes. Some years I have a lot of A's and some years I don't give a single A. It depends on my students. If none of the students earn an A then none of the students earn an A. I don't care if a teacher never gives A's. That just means that no one ever performs at the A level. I think I'm giving all the A's for the next 5 years this year, lol. My A level happens to be achievable for a good student. Teachers have every right to reserve A's for the exceptional student ESPECIALLY in AP classes which are often weighted.
But then every teacher in every high school needs to use the same system. Do you not realize that even though your grading system may be justified, you are putting your students at a very serious disadvantage when it comes to scholarships and college admissions?
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I had a professor who never gave A's in college. To get an A in his class you needed to have a 97 average. (80% was the bottom of the D range in his class). I got an 80 on the final which cost me an A in the class. That's on me not him. I had a 98 going into the final and I blew it on the final. I knew what I had done the second I walked out the door but it was too late. I did not perform at an A level so I got a B (not even a B+ a flat B).
Again, that was wrong that he was using a different grading scale than the rest of the world.
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The requirements for an A are the requirements for an A. Is the bar set high if it's rare for a student to earn an A? Yes but that's ok. It gives you something to reach for. I may not have gotten the A I wanted but I learned a lot in Dr. F's class trying.
That may work for you, but not for everybody. I learned far more from "easier" teachers than I did from "harder" teachers.
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He had every right to set the bar high. Most years he did not give a single A. That's ok. It just means no one performed at an A level in his class. Teachers are not required to give A's. I have years where I don't give. This year I'm giving a lot. If teachers who don't give A's need to make their classes easier so they give more wouldn't teachers who give a lot of A's need to make their classes harder so they give fewer A's? I'm not changing the way I grade this year in spite of the high number of A's I'm giving because I know my bar is set high enough. I just happen to have a really competitive class this year. I hear next year's class is a bunch of slackers. (I'm always amazed at how classes have personalities. This year's 11th graders work their butts off and really try to learn. Their grades reflect that. My 10th graders are another story. 1/4th of them just don't give a rats ass. Next year I'm going to have a record number of failures in chemistry.)
Do you at least explain to the parents of high achieving students, such as my parents, who basically crucified me for any grades less than an A, even from teachers who literally never gave A's?
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The question I would be asking if a teacher never gives A's is how many students are failing. If few fail, there's no issue. The teacher just has the bar set high and that is ok. A B in such a teacher's class is something to be proud of.
But a B doesn't get you into top colleges. A B does not get you an academic scholarship to most colleges. And many parents do not consider a B to be an acceptable grade.
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It's not me. It's the students. I have a group this year that is determined to do well in my class AND they out scored previous classes on the pre test by about 10 points. Usually I have fewer A's than I have right now and a lot more E's. I have only a few students failing chemistry this year which is odd. IMO all but one is misplaced. He just won't do anything and he will fail as a result. The others should be in the lower chemistry class. This is a weird year in my chemistry classes but I will not change my curriculum because I have more A's than usual. The students who are performing at that level have earned their A's even if it does look like there are too many of them.
