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Old 02-13-2017, 03:25 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,594 posts, read 1,412,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
And still you refuse to listen, it has nothing to do with indoctrination and everything to do with a minimum level of cultural literacy.
So you think culture is objective. I don't. Mostly it is evolved stupidity.

Why do high schools teach biology, chemistry and physics in that order? When was it decided?

It started in the 1880s and just seems to be arbitrary. But that was before the structure of the atom was discovered and the understanding of chemistry has changed due to the understanding of the physics of the atom. The neutron was not discovered until 1932. It would make more sense to to Newtonian Physics, Chemistry, Biology and then Einsteinian & Quantum Physics.

It is not my fault that you expect people to worship culture. Double-entry accounting is 700 years old and invented in Italy. Is that in the History books? European nobility giving away land in the New World is part of History and culture, right? Why isn't accounting more important than history and what would it have done to the culture if it had been mandatory since 1950?

Oh wait, would there have been a Depression if it had been mandatory since 1900? Would that change History?



psik
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Old 02-13-2017, 04:00 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,594 posts, read 1,412,409 times
Reputation: 970
Sorry, it took a moment to click. Must be getting old. LOL

Hirsch: Cultural Literacy
https://www.lkmco.org/things-to-know...literacy-idea/

I bought that book back in the 80's when William Bennett was talking about how great it was.

With all of the dates it listed that people were expected to know to be culturally literate

July 20, 1969 was not included.

Ever heard of the Moon landing?

The world population has doubled since then. Techno-morons are going to crash the planet with cultural literacy. Ever heard of St. Matthew Island?

THE INTRODUCTION, INCREASE, AND CRASH OF REINDEER ON ST. MATTHEW ISLAND

psik
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Old 02-14-2017, 06:17 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,411 posts, read 60,592,880 times
Reputation: 61028
Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
So you think culture is objective. I don't. Mostly it is evolved stupidity.

Why do high schools teach biology, chemistry and physics in that order? When was it decided?

It started in the 1880s and just seems to be arbitrary. But that was before the structure of the atom was discovered and the understanding of chemistry has changed due to the understanding of the physics of the atom. The neutron was not discovered until 1932. It would make more sense to to Newtonian Physics, Chemistry, Biology and then Einsteinian & Quantum Physics.

It is not my fault that you expect people to worship culture. Double-entry accounting is 700 years old and invented in Italy. Is that in the History books? European nobility giving away land in the New World is part of History and culture, right? Why isn't accounting more important than history and what would it have done to the culture if it had been mandatory since 1950?

Oh wait, would there have been a Depression if it had been mandatory since 1900? Would that change History?



psik
I can answer your science question, which you shouldn't have needed an answer for, Math.

You don't like the way school is set up, fine. Classes are set up to speed follow stages of cognitive development.

Some of things you categorize as "important" and "earthshaking" (double entry bookkeeping? C'mon) aren't. If you never heard of New World land grants you either had a bad teacher or, more likely, didn't read the textbook and weren't paying attention in class.

I took Physics, real Physics, in 10th grade because that's when College Prep kids took it in my school system and guess what. None of us, not one, understood what the **** was going on, we didn't have the Math.

How did the moon landing change society? It didn't. We dropped the ball on space and went back to low Earth orbit. Quite frankly I'm still surprised the ISS was built.

I would suggest you get away from Bennett's book and discover what's meant by cultural literacy, you're seeing it play out daily right now in real time.

Not everything is distilled into Coming of Age in Karhide.
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Old 02-14-2017, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,586 posts, read 84,818,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgn2013 View Post
Translation: in the old days, history was presented to us in a more palatable manner. We were told that white men were awesome and did all this amazing stuff while everyone else benefited from their awesomeness! There were a few bad apples but everyone from John Rolfe/John Smith to George Washington, Andrew Jackson and Abe Lincoln were swell guys. No one else really contributed to America, but we'll spend five minutes talking about Martin Luther King Jr. and throw in some suffragette talk to provide a balanced viewpoint. Let's bask in our (white male) awesomeness. There couldn't possibly be more to the story.


The truth is that history is complicated and so it must now be taught with THE TRUTH in mind. The English-speaking whites that immigrated to the U.S. (after the Spanish excursions in the late 1400's and 1500's) weren't any different from other immigrant groups. They weren't rugged individualists that "tamed" the land. They were desperate people that were fortunate to arrive in North America when they did. The Spanish brought smallpox among other diseases and wiped out around 90% of the Native population in the Americas. Had the English encountered a fully peopled Native population, their "settling" (whatever the hell that means) would have gone much differently.


The nationalistic and xenophobic leanings of some Americans is best understood as an inverse relationship to one's understanding of U.S. history. So if you're praying for Toupee Fiasco to build a wall on the Mexican border, it's probably because you don't understand the irony and hypocrisy of that wish. As if it was perfectly OK for your ancestors to ignore the rights of others when taking Native land, but somehow it's not OK now for Mexicans (mainly Mestizos with significant native ancestry) to ignore your rules and do the same. A lot like how all those European countries colonized the world, and now the consequence of that is their former subjects returning home in large numbers to the mother country.
That was pretty good, with one exception. I was in school in "the old days" (1960s). Martin Luther King wasn't yet something taught because he was still alive. As a matter of fact, the first time I ever heard his name was the day he was killed. My hamster died the same day, so I didn't really care about this guy I never heard of who had been shot.
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Old 02-15-2017, 10:27 AM
 
Location: midwest
1,594 posts, read 1,412,409 times
Reputation: 970
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
I can answer your science question, which you shouldn't have needed an answer for, Math.

You don't like the way school is set up, fine. Classes are set up to speed follow stages of cognitive development.

Some of things you categorize as "important" and "earthshaking" (double entry bookkeeping? C'mon) aren't. If you never heard of New World land grants you either had a bad teacher or, more likely, didn't read the textbook and weren't paying attention in class.

I took Physics, real Physics, in 10th grade because that's when College Prep kids took it in my school system and guess what. None of us, not one, understood what the **** was going on, we didn't have the Math.

How did the moon landing change society? It didn't. We dropped the ball on space and went back to low Earth orbit. Quite frankly I'm still surprised the ISS was built.

I would suggest you get away from Bennett's book and discover what's meant by cultural literacy, you're seeing it play out daily right now in real time.

Not everything is distilled into Coming of Age in Karhide.
You think the landing itself is what matters about the Moon landing?

What technologies had to be developed and problems solved for that to event to occur?
Apollo 40 years on: how the moon missions changed the world for ever

Quote:
In the early 60s computers still tended to take up entire rooms. If the boffins in Boston were going to miniaturise it enough to pack it into a modestly sized craft, they'd need some new technology, and they turned to an emerging invention called the integrated circuit. Fairchild Semiconductor was one of the few companies experimenting with these new micro-electronic components at the time; keen to help them perfect the performance of these novel miniature circuits, Nasa ordered one million of them.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/...on-space-riley

If you didn't have the Math then how could it have been real Physics?

psik
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Old 02-15-2017, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Out in the Badlands
10,420 posts, read 10,830,847 times
Reputation: 7801
PC also know as political correctness.
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Old 02-15-2017, 11:16 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,411 posts, read 60,592,880 times
Reputation: 61028
Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
You think the landing itself is what matters about the Moon landing?

What technologies had to be developed and problems solved for that to event to occur?
Apollo 40 years on: how the moon missions changed the world for ever

https://www.theguardian.com/science/...on-space-riley

If you didn't have the Math then how could it have been real Physics?

psik
Because that was what the educational theorists of the time said schools should do. And school systems did it.

You stated "Moon landing". Nothing about the technologies. Which, by the way, are covered in various classes.

As someone else mentioned, you need to stop using 60 plus year old textbooks as your references.

Last edited by North Beach Person; 02-15-2017 at 11:25 AM..
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Old 02-15-2017, 12:43 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,594 posts, read 1,412,409 times
Reputation: 970
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
You stated "Moon landing". Nothing about the technologies..
So you think people travel 240,000 miles through vacuum and come back without technology.

1944 v-2 missile == range 200 miles, payload 2,000 lb. accuracy 50% chance of 2 miles of target.

1957 Sputnik

1969 Moon landing

It is not my fault that you can ignore the technologies which must exist to enable the event. They are more important than the event.

And I said it is surprising that PG has so few science books from the 50s and 60s. But that does not make PG useless.

Worlds Within Worlds: The Story of Nuclear Energy, (1972)
Volumes (1,2 & 3 of 3) by Isaac Asimov
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/49819
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/49820
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/49821

The structure of atoms have not changed since then but how much more has been learned that increases the understanding of high school students?

The really curious thing is Molten Salt Reactors:

What

It existed in the 60s but we never heard about them.

Did I ever say we should not use books later than the 60s? I am simply pointing out that PG is a FREE source that does not require the so called "schools".

psik
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Old 02-15-2017, 12:50 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,411 posts, read 60,592,880 times
Reputation: 61028
Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
So you think people travel 240,000 miles through vacuum and come back without technology.

1944 v-2 missile == range 200 miles, payload 2,000 lb. accuracy 50% chance of 2 miles of target.

1957 Sputnik

1969 Moon landing

It is not my fault that you can ignore the technologies which must exist to enable the event. They are more important than the event.

And I said it is surprising that PG has so few science books from the 50s and 60s. But that does not make PG useless.

Worlds Within Worlds: The Story of Nuclear Energy, (1972)
Volumes (1,2 & 3 of 3) by Isaac Asimov
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/49819
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/49820
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/49821

The structure of atoms have not changed since then but how much more has been learned that increases the understanding of high school students?

The really curious thing is Molten Salt Reactors:

What

It existed in the 60s but we never heard about them.

Did I ever say we should not use books later than the 60s? I am simply pointing out that PG is a FREE source that does not require the so called "schools".

psik
Because you are trying to claim various subjects aren't touched upon in class which is factually incorrect. Every US History text I used over my career had sections on technology as well as enhanced work to go along with them.

What you seem to usually want is to have months long instruction about what you find interesting. Yeah, I can see an entire grading period teaching about the proximity fuse.

I can't help you didn't learn about various subjects in high school. My guess is that it wasn't because it wasn't taught but because you were so wrapped up in what you wanted to do that you weren't paying attention.

Salt reactor? Why?
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Old 02-15-2017, 02:02 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,594 posts, read 1,412,409 times
Reputation: 970
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
I can't help you didn't learn about various subjects in high school. My guess is that it wasn't because it wasn't taught but because you were so wrapped up in what you wanted to do that you weren't paying attention.

Salt reactor? Why?
What subjects did I say I didn't learn in high school? Besides accounting?

I was put into college prep and accounting was never mentioned.

So you haven't learned about salt reactor. Richard Nixon shut the research down.

If Fukushima had been using molten salt reactors based on thorium the melt downs would not have happened. Nixon caused us to waste 30 years of development.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYxlpeJEKmw

The trouble is thorium could not be used for weapons so the military was not interested.

psik
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