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I agree that learning the history of OTHER nations should be taught in this way. Unfortunately, it is only going to seem truly neutral in the case of countries that pretty much did nothing throughout history. For example, if you are discussing WWII, it would take a willfully ignorant author to present the deeds of Germany or Japan in a way that seemed balanced to a disinterested observer.
However, it is completely counterproductive to destroy the national pride felt by citizens of your own country by downplaying the good it has done and concentrate on the bad to 'make up' for our past 'aggrandizement'.
If you don't want to teach your children that they SHOULD be proud of their country, why have a country at all?
Should Germans be proud of their history in the 1940s and 1940s?
Should the Japanese be proud of their history in World War II and the Rape Of Nanking?
Should we be proud of the Japanese internment?
Should we be proud of slavery?
Should we be proud of Watergate?
Should we be proud of the Indian Wars?
Should we be proud of being the only nation that has ever dropped a nuclear weapon?
What you are talking about is propaganda, not history.
When I was in school, we were taught that we were "right" to drop the bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima. We weren't taught that there were those who believed differently. We were not encouraged to read facts and opinions and then make up our own minds. We were taught about that just about the same way that we were taught than George Washington never told a lie, and our teachers ignored Jefferson and Sally Hemmings.
The truth is the truth, and American need to learn to interpret the truth and make their own judgements.
There are countless versions of history and it is ridiculous to think there is one accurate version. For example, in which country do you think students learn the most accurate version of WWII? Do you think it is the USA, Italy, Russia, Great Britain, France, Germany, Israel, China, Japan, Brazil, or Poland?
These debates are good but most students haven't don't have the background and understanding to debate this topic.
...
I do agree with your statement that our schools have become "so focused on PC and inclusion that they are altering our proud history.
It is sad but the truth. Students aren't even expected to read textbooks today and have great difficulty skimming through the textbook to find simple answers to fill out worksheets. If the answer isn't in bold or highlighted, most can't find it.
Paragraph 1: Good pint.
Paragraph 2: That's an awfully broad generality. Are you talking about 3rd graders? Middle schoolers? High school seniors? Regular ability level classes or honors or AP classes?
I agree with the second part. But as to the first I have to disagree. As my OP states the "history" has been altered and I do not think just its interpretation but instead its entire teaching. Some examples:
Civil War now covered more than Revolutionary War or War of 1812. This is a result of influx of liberal leaning teachers who prefer the pro-abolitionist side of the war (it was a side note at the time). We also hear more about Amerindians than before - this despite their rather modest accomplishments. Lastly, the idea that we are all immigrants. Jamestown was founded in 1607. I find it difficult to think of 400 years worth or European/American citizens as "immigrants."
Again, it just seems to me that the liberal dominated classrooms are so focused on PC and inclusion that they are altering our proud history.
The settlers were immigrants. They came from another land to settle this one. They took the land from the people who were already here.
Try reading Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong and
Lies Across America: What Our Historic Sites Get Wrong. Then get this book to teach a different perspective.
the original documents of the Confederacy show quite clearly that the war was based on one thing: slavery. For example, in its declaration of secession, Mississippi explained, "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery — the greatest material interest of the world … a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization." In its declaration of secession, South Carolina actually comes out against the rights of states to make their own laws — at least when those laws conflict with slaveholding. "In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals," the document reads. The right of transit, Loewen said, was the right of slaveholders to bring their slaves along with them on trips to non-slaveholding states.
Should Germans be proud of their history in the 1930s and 1940s?
Should the Japanese be proud of their history in World War II and the Rape Of Nanking?
Should we be proud of the Japanese internment?
Should we be proud of slavery?
Should we be proud of Watergate?
Should we be proud of the Indian Wars?
Should we be proud of being the only nation that has ever dropped a nuclear weapon?
The truth is the truth, and American need to learn to interpret the truth and make their own judgements.
And much of your rant, sir, draws heavily upon an oversimplified version of the truth, carefully crafted by the National Indoctrination Association.
Your post makes no mention of the valor of Japanese-American Nisei units which fought in the European theater,
Or of the role of enlightened Americans of both races in endeavors such as the Underground Railroad,
Or, on the other hand, of the militant abolitionists who sowed and nurtured the seeds of resentment from their secure Northeastern enclaves, thereby prolonging and intensifying the Civil War, and the resentments beyond,
Or of the complicity of that "Great Commoner", Andrew Jackson, in the displacement of the Native Peoples,
Or of the partisanship on both sides during the Watergate scandal,
And last, but surely not least, of the decision by President Truman ("The buck stops here!") to use atomic weapons at the close of World War II, thereby possibly avoiding hundreds of thousands of casualties (on both sides, and involving many Japanese non-combatants, BTW) in an invasion of the Japanese home islands. If you had any ancestor serving in the US military at that time, as I did, you have no right to sit in judgment, because you might not be here if those weapons had not been used.
It's time to put down the Politically Correct pablum, and look (and think) a little deeper.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 02-09-2017 at 06:53 PM..
As a certified cynic I am inclined to doubt that there is such a thing as accurate history.
I doubt that people making what eventually become important decisions necessarily record why they did what they did or are even honest with themselves. Also the value systems they had at the time may be complete nonsense to us today.
What have the History Books told us about the "Proximity Fuse" in World War II? I have asked people and most do not even know what a proximity fuse is. But my high school history teacher asked on a test, "What general said "Nuts!" to the Germans at the Battle of the Bulge?"
A proximity fuse is an electronic trigger built into an explosive shell that causes it to explode when it gets near a target. This is really important when trying to shoot down Japanese planes diving on ships at 300 mph. It was invented by an Englishman but developed and manufactured in the United States. It is entirely possible that it had more of an effect on when V-J day happened than the Atomic Bomb. The navy had to fight its way close enough to Japan to fly planes in to bomb it.
So how do you judge history when it is quite likely there are things you have not been told? And after all of these decades there is no egoistic reason why we shouldn't have been told about the proximity fuse. Or maybe technology doesn't let the soldiers look so heroic. So what happens when the society has huge biases about the history?
Our history contains many things we should not be so proud of. Some of the things you learned in grade school decades ago were outright propaganda. Being a true patriot means loving your country despite its flaws and not being afraid of discussing and analyzing them.
Absolutely. But it was that 'propaganda' that opened us up to the idea that the country SHOULD be loved. Show us the bad first and we will have no desire to see the good.
And much of your rant, sir, draws heavily upon an oversimplified version of the truth, carefully crafted by the National Indoctrination Association.
None of the things listed are things to be proud of. Calling it indoctrination sounds silly. Obviously you could add good things as well, but it's a short list. Trying to hide the negatives of a nation's history sounds like actual indoctrination
Quote:
Or of the role of enlightened Americans of both races in endeavors such as the Underground Railroad,
[u]Or, on the other hand, of the militant abolitionists who sowed and nurtured the seeds of resentment from their secure Northeastern enclaves, thereby prolonging and intensifying the Civil War, and the resentments beyond
Many of those involved in the underground railroad were militant abolitionists. Your judgement of them sounds oddly. The militant abolitionists are people in our history we can and should be proud for seeing, calling out evil and helping fight, sometimes at risk to themselves. They were not secure, often attacked by mods
Should Germans be proud of their history in the 1940s and 1940s?
Should the Japanese be proud of their history in World War II and the Rape Of Nanking?
Should we be proud of the Japanese internment?
Should we be proud of slavery?
Should we be proud of Watergate?
Should we be proud of the Indian Wars?
Should we be proud of being the only nation that has ever dropped a nuclear weapon?
What you are talking about is propaganda, not history.i
When I was in school, we were taught that we were "right" to drop the bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima. We weren't taught that there were those who believed differently. We were not encouraged to read facts and opinions and then make up our own minds. We were taught about that just about the same way that we were taught than George Washington never told a lie, and our teachers ignored Jefferson and Sally Hemmings.
The truth is the truth, and American need to learn to interpret the truth and make their own judgements.
Should Germans be proud of their history in the 1940s and 1940s?
No. But that doesn't mean they have nothing to be proud of..
Should the Japanese be proud of their history in World War II and the Rape Of Nanking?
Again, no. And again, they have other reasons to be proud of their heritage.
Should we be proud of the Japanese internment?
Same response as the others.
Should we be proud of slavery?
The USA didn't create slavery, the USA was created in a world where slavery existed, by people born in the early part of the 18th century, in a land where slavery and indentured servitude had existed longer than anyone was alive. We voluntarily paid for the sins of slavery with our blood in the civil war 150 years ago. Deal with it.
Should we be proud of Watergate?
Really, Watergate? Watergate was the act of one man, not a stain on the country.
Should we be proud of the Indian Wars?
Feel free to judge the people of the 17th to 19th century to the standards of the 21st century. Two hundred years from now our culture will be found wanting by the fashion of the 23rd century as well. C'est la vie.
Should we be proud of being the only nation that has ever dropped a nuclear weapon?
Yes, we should. That action showed the world the horror of this weapon, and kept World War III at bay for over 70 years so far. Without that visual, what would have kept the USSR out of Western Europe? Or NATO out of Eastern Europe, for those so ideologically inclined?
When I was in school, we were taught that we were "right" to drop the bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
It was. For a dozen reasons, including the saving of millions of Japanese lives. If you want to judge the decision, the only evidence you can use is the evidence as it existed then, not after it has been massaged and dissected for 70 years.
We weren't taught that there were those who believed differently.
Yes, other people who were wrong. For every action taken throughout history, there will always be those who condemn the good things and honor the despicable ones. Being a dissenter does not automatically mean your opinion has merit.
We were not encouraged to read facts and opinions and then make up our own minds.
We live in a world with finite time and finite resources. Endless debate does not change the fact that some things are beyond being a matter of opinion. The need to end the Pacific War was not an opinion, nor was the decision to save countless American servicemen and Japanese civilian lives by a shocking show of force.
We were taught about that just about the same way that we were taught than George Washington never told a lie,
Now that is just silly. That was taught as a folk tale and a legend, along with the cherry tree and the dollar across the Potomac.
and our teachers ignored Jefferson and Sally Hemmings.
Ignored what? That Thomas Jefferson had some type of relationship with his deceased wife's 1/4 black 3/4 white half sister who was their slave in a time and place where it was considered unsafe for her to be 'freed'? And that she had children by either the ex-president or someone closely related to him? Anything and everything else is a modern fabrication without real proof or evidence. It seems to me that their relationship, whatever it was, was consensual and really nobody's business outside of their families..
Last edited by rugrats2001; 02-09-2017 at 08:50 PM..
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