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Of course they don't fit the mold. And it has nothing to do with me blaming them. What we should be doing is also (in addition to punishing the bully; which I have already discussed more than once) is helping to see why they don't fit in and exploring whether or not they may want to make some changes.
Let me give you a couple of examples.
We had one girl, age 12, who was being bullied because kids said she was dirty, her hair was stringy, she had BO, and her clothes were terrible. Well guess what...all of things were VERY true. Does it mean she should be bullied? Of course not. But the counselor, female PE teacher, and I sat down and worked out a plan. Then we discussed the situation with her. She could see the relationship between her "condition" and the bullying, but her stupid mother had never taught her anything related to hygiene (guess she didn't want to go there). So, the school bought her a supply of shampoo, soap, appropriate feminine products, tooth brush and tooth paste, etc. Actually, I shouldn't say the school bought the stuff. We personally bought the stuff. Each morning, as soon as she got off the bus, she would be allowed into the building while other kids waited outside the building for the opening bell, would go to the PE locker room, and clean herself up. The PE teacher even laundered her clothes for her. All the while teaching her about hygiene. We even contacted the high school when she moved on to get them on board. For the most part, the problem was solved. But I guess we shouldn't have gone there. Right?
Then there was the Little Professor who came into my office crying (literally) about having no friends and how kids were picking on him. So we had a little discussion about how the level of English he was using was not appropriate to his peer group. In fact, it wasn't even appropriate to the faculty. In fact, in my whole life I had never met a person who put on such airs, obviously trying to demonstrate his intellectual superiority. Well, despite understanding the issue, he wanted to continue as was. So we continued punishing the bullies, and he continued being bullied throughout middle school and, from what I understand, throughout high school. And, I can't imagine what kind of work environment he would have fit into. Hence, probably a life of unhappiness. But, we tried to help him understand that while bullying is never appropriate, sometimes makes himself/herself the target.
And that's what I'm talking about. Most of us understand how we can make ourselves the target of disdain. But some kids and adults do not. And frankly, they need some counseling.
How do you know he was *trying to demonstrate his intellectual superiority.* You don't. If this youngster had asperger's syndrome and was gifted, he probably belonged in a school that allowed him to be with others who understood his language instead of having faculty who were so inferior that they could not understand it.
Note that a child who is extremely bright, but socially inept will have problems, but he will have less problems with other really bright children and with teachers who understand his abilities.
How do you know he was *trying to demonstrate his intellectual superiority.* You don't. If this youngster had asperger's syndrome and was gifted, he probably belonged in a school that allowed him to be with others who understood his language instead of having faculty who were so inferior that they could not understand it.
Note that a child who is extremely bright, but socially inept will have problems, but he will have less problems with other really bright children and with teachers who understand his abilities.
1. Could he have been Aspergers? Yes, although he had been tested and that was not a diagnosis. And I would prefer to assume that professionals who did such testing every day had more insight about a particular young man than a poster on a forum.
2. Yes. He was gifted, and was in the largest award-winning gifted-center program in Virginia.
1. Could he have been Aspergers? Yes, although he had been tested and that was not a diagnosis. And I would prefer to assume that professionals who did such testing every day had more insight about a particular young man than a poster on a forum.
2. Yes. He was gifted, and was in the largest award-winning gifted-center program in Virginia.
1. Depending on when this was, asperger's was not necessarily seen for what it was. My son was never diagnosed. He is in his 40s now and he is a chemical engineer. When his son was dxed with classic autism, we recognized that my son had many of the asperger's traits that were almost unknown when he was young. While I am not qualified to dx this child, I know a lot about asperger's and autism from working with my grandson, my son and the other children who are dxed.
2. What was done to teach those who were bullying him that they needed to accept his differences. We are fortunate that our autistic son is NOT being bullying because the school has a great way of teaching all the kids to accept everyone for their differences.
Bullying stems from an ancient survival instinct from the prehistoric period of human history. Until someone finds a way to squelch this quality of human nature, bullying will persist.
Not so black and white. Not being able to totally eliminate a problem does not mean that steps cannot be taken to control it. That's like saying there will always be fires somewhere so why does the fire department not just let people's houses burn down?
1. Depending on when this was, asperger's was not necessarily seen for what it was. My son was never diagnosed. He is in his 40s now and he is a chemical engineer. When his son was dxed with classic autism, we recognized that my son had many of the asperger's traits that were almost unknown when he was young. While I am not qualified to dx this child, I know a lot about asperger's and autism from working with my grandson, my son and the other children who are dxed.
2. What was done to teach those who were bullying him that they needed to accept his differences. We are fortunate that our autistic son is NOT being bullying because the school has a great way of teaching all the kids to accept everyone for their differences.
1. Asperger's was well documented at the time and we had a number of Asperger's children in our school who were receiving services. He was diagnosed as not being Aspergers by the school system
staff, as well as by people hired privately by the family. The conclusion of both groups was that the parents had created the situation by totally isolating the child from associating with other people his own age. He was not allowed to watch television, listen to popular music, "play" on the computer, was not allowed to associate with other kids in the neighborhood or in other settings. He had never been allowed to read age-appropriate books or magazines. He grew up in a totally adult world even as a little boy. He had learned no skills from his parents on how to associate with others who were his own age -- and, the parents later admitted it was their fault.
2. Students who bullied him were in many punished and in all cases counseled about having consideration for those who are different. But mostly it was just kids not wanting to associated with him...which is not a punishable offense. However, a school has no right to force children to have some particular child as their friend. And, in fact, other parents accused of us of attempting social engineering by trying to force children to befriend other students, although that was a gross exaggeration of what we were doing.
Not so black and white. Not being able to totally eliminate a problem does not mean that steps cannot be taken to control it. That's like saying there will always be fires somewhere so why does the fire department not just let people's houses burn down?
It's just a non-sequitur.
Exactly. There are few problems in the world that are totally solved. It's often baby steps toward a solution and over time things improve. Adults are often as much of the problem of bullying as the students doing the bullying, and all we can do is tackle each situation as it comes along, and have a school-wide anti-bullying program. I will say that there are times when students will rally around a student who is being bullied and harassed. When that happens I think it is a sign that the school is doing something right.
But I'll tell you what I think we both agree on -- some of the quick fixes that some posters suggest are quick...and shallow.
1. Asperger's was well documented at the time and we had a number of Asperger's children in our school who were receiving services. He was diagnosed as not being Aspergers by the school system
staff, as well as by people hired privately by the family. The conclusion of both groups was that the parents had created the situation by totally isolating the child from associating with other people his own age. He was not allowed to watch television, listen to popular music, "play" on the computer, was not allowed to associate with other kids in the neighborhood or in other settings. He had never been allowed to read age-appropriate books or magazines. He grew up in a totally adult world even as a little boy. He had learned no skills from his parents on how to associate with others who were his own age -- and, the parents later admitted it was their fault.
2. Students who bullied him were in many punished and in all cases counseled about having consideration for those who are different. But mostly it was just kids not wanting to associated with him...which is not a punishable offense. However, a school has no right to force children to have some particular child as their friend. And, in fact, other parents accused of us of attempting social engineering by trying to force children to befriend other students, although that was a gross exaggeration of what we were doing.
That is very sad. I agree that the school has no right to try to enforce friendships. Of course, they still have to accept differences and be kind even to someone who is not their friend. Did the parents ever change so he could be helped?
That is very sad. I agree that the school has no right to try to enforce friendships. Of course, they still have to accept differences and be kind even to someone who is not their friend. Did the parents ever change so he could be helped?
I don't know how the story ended up, because we tended to lose track of most of the kids once they went on to high school. But when they got turned down twice for Asperger's and were told the boy needed deep counseling to begin to work toward how to figure out how to develop relationships that they accepted their lifestyle had caused the problem. My guess is that it was a life long issue with perhaps some improvement.
No, this boy was beyond any adult that I have ever interacted with. Heck, I've never met a college professor who talked like this boy. Not even close. This was way beyond "nerdiness". Think Sheldon in spades. In fact, eventually his parents put him in therapy for just this.
Part of life is learning how to fit in. Knowing in what settings certain behaviors work, and in what settings certain ways of interacting do not work. And I know that you do it, as do most of us. We behave differently with our colleagues than we do our pals out for a drink on Friday evening.
I have a similar student right now. In a school full of gifted students, it is inevitable that some want to seem even smarter than the rest.
We are a STEM school, and we are getting ready for a conference where students will present to experts in their fields. This student desperately wants to use not just jargon of the field, but also overly complicated language. The reality is good science communicators do not use complicated language unless necessary, and that a good presentation is understandable to all, and not a chance to use pretentious vocabulary.
When he was explaining his findings, all he needed to say was " X has a lower biodiversity that is statistically significant". He insisted on saying "It has been ascertained that the biodiversity of X, is indicative of a incommensurable difference that is....." blah blah blah. He actually used the word "pithy" at some point which is sort of ironic in the situation. The sad part is he actually did a solid project and his conclusions are sound but I know he is not going to be well received at the conference as he is going to come across even to the phds as pretentious.
There seems to be a mythology that phds have complex vocabularies when nothing could be further from the truth. People who really know there stuff, can explain it in a way anyone can understand. There is a difference between correctly using jargon and having a pretentious vocabulary.
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