Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This is the wrong approach, it is almost tantamount to saying "might makes right". Newsflash, it doesn't. Moral correctness does not come from the ability to win a physical fight.
When your kid is getting pounded on someone larger than them who has the might? Bigger kids have an advantage over smaller kids. Martial Arts takes the advatage away. On top of that we are not condoning fighting in the play ground. Our kids would tell them, if you really want to fight me come on over to the studio so we can have a real fight. One of two things happen. The bully backs down or they come to the studio. Either way a fight at school does not happen.
Every bully that I have ever met is scared. One of our older sons had a bully picking on him from 4th grade till 7th grade. We told him not to fight back. We tried taking it to the teacher, principle, and even the parents. No help. Finally my wife had enough. She had a meeting with the principle and told him how things were going to go. She had instructed our son to fight back, something that most martial artist are actually against. We try to walk away first. The principle was aware of what was going to happen the next time. This was the end of the school year, one week left. My wife and son were told that if the boys fought both would be out of school for the last week.
Well it happened, this kid picked on our son, and he got punched in the face, knocking him down. Game over. Both kids were suspended for the last week. Wow, an extra week of summer. Maybe they planned it. LOL
Anyway, the next year guess what happened. A kid decides to pick on our son. Two of his friends warn him that our son took out some big kid last year. No one ever messed with our son after that.
Since we got into Taekwondo we prefer to have kids fight in a controlled situation with sparring gear on. That is how we role now and it is much cooler. You would be surprised how many bully's want to get into Taekwondo after they are asked to come to the studio. Our instructors do not respect bully's. They teach them that it is not OK to bully other kids. For the most part though it seems that these kids learn something and find that they get self esteem from learning a Martial Art then from punching on kids.
The most recent case of bullying in our school involved a student I will call S. He is a nice kid, gets along well with his peers most of the time, but if there is any joking around he immediately over reacts. I will give the two examples I personally witnessed. First, reshman sit in one of four tables near the front of the cafeteria, because we have had issues of them not cleaning up after themselves. While I was on lunch duty, I witnessed him and several of his table mates, laughing goofing around, and growing popcorn at one another. I told them to stop and to pick up the popcorn. He then went to the principal and accused his friends of bullying him. I watched him cheerfully throw the first piece of popcorn, and by the time I had gotten there they had each thrown some. Another time I was covering a class he was in, and the students had been left group work. They were to work with a partner. The boy who sat behind him asked S if he wanted to be partners, and loudly S replied "EW NOT WITH YOU". I asked S to step out into the hallway with me, and told him first that was not appropriate to turn someone down that way, and he immediately accused me of bullying him. He accused so many teachers and students of accusing him, that people began to avoid him, in order to avoid being accused of bullying.
This child had been taught that anytime someone hurt his feelings he was being bullied, he had also been taught that his own behavior was always that of the victim, and anyone who disagreed with him was a bully. By the time he was halfway through the year, his parents had started a lawsuit against the school, and named all 7 of his freshman teachers, his guidance counselor and the principal as personally bullying him in addition to the rest of his grade. We later found out he had sued 4 different schools before ours for the same issue.
This is a shame not just for his child who could not adjust to having friends but also for children who actually do get bullied, as this child took up all of the available resources by loudly and constantly demanding bullying investigations literally, daily.
A real problem is that bullying victims often view everything as bullying, and have a hard time telling the difference between real bullying versus good natured teasing.
Of course they don't fit the mold. And it has nothing to do with me blaming them. What we should be doing is also (in addition to punishing the bully; which I have already discussed more than once) is helping to see why they don't fit in and exploring whether or not they may want to make some changes.
Let me give you a couple of examples.
We had one girl, age 12, who was being bullied because kids said she was dirty, her hair was stringy, she had BO, and her clothes were terrible. Well guess what...all of things were VERY true. Does it mean she should be bullied? Of course not. But the counselor, female PE teacher, and I sat down and worked out a plan. Then we discussed the situation with her. She could see the relationship between her "condition" and the bullying, but her stupid mother had never taught her anything related to hygiene (guess she didn't want to go there). So, the school bought her a supply of shampoo, soap, appropriate feminine products, tooth brush and tooth paste, etc. Actually, I shouldn't say the school bought the stuff. We personally bought the stuff. Each morning, as soon as she got off the bus, she would be allowed into the building while other kids waited outside the building for the opening bell, would go to the PE locker room, and clean herself up. The PE teacher even laundered her clothes for her. All the while teaching her about hygiene. We even contacted the high school when she moved on to get them on board. For the most part, the problem was solved. But I guess we shouldn't have gone there. Right?
That is an extreme example. Personal hygiene is something that everybody needs to practice, regardless of whether or not they "fit the mold". Most bullying victims do not have problems with basic life skills such as that. You are taking one extreme example and trying to apply it to all bullying victims.
Quote:
Then there was the Little Professor who came into my office crying (literally) about having no friends and how kids were picking on him. So we had a little discussion about how the level of English he was using was not appropriate to his peer group. In fact, it wasn't even appropriate to the faculty. In fact, in my whole life I had never met a person who put on such airs, obviously trying to demonstrate his intellectual superiority. Well, despite understanding the issue, he wanted to continue as was. So we continued punishing the bullies, and he continued being bullied throughout middle school and, from what I understand, throughout high school. And, I can't imagine what kind of work environment he would have fit into. Hence, probably a life of unhappiness. But, we tried to help him understand that while bullying is never appropriate, sometimes makes himself/herself the target.
And that's what I'm talking about. Most of us understand how we can make ourselves the target of disdain. But some kids and adults do not. And frankly, they need some counseling.
I have a question. How many of these online bullying incidents might be carried out via school supplied computers/iPad devices, etc. even if they are happening at times that the kids are obviously not in school? Do kids take those devices home with them ostensibly to be able to do homework for instance? If so, are they checked regularly by school authorities to ensure they are not being misused in any way?
Teaching kids to defend themselves also includes knowing when to run/avoid confrontation.
It amazes me that these skills were well known years ago. Today kids are taught to stand there and take it. So what if he's hitting you, just don't hit back. Don't defend yourself. You'll get in trouble. Makes me ill. STICK UP FOR YOURSELF.
(off soapbox)
Depends on setting. If both the victim and the bully are in the classroom, the victim shouldn't be expected to leave the room, especially when there are repeated instances of bullying. A lot of teachers don't do a good job at managing behavioral issues even in their own classroom. The victims have every right to remain present in order to receive their education. I have not been in the k-12 system myself since 2005 (when I graduated high school), so I don't know what is going on for sure, but I have a nagging suspicion that teachers are not given adequate training on how to handle disruptive students in their classroom. And too many teachers just want to give worksheets and sit there. Would these teachers respond if a student had a legitimate complaint - "Hey Mr. Fitzgerald, so and so is mocking x, y, z". Is the teacher going to simply ask the bully to stop and wait for it to happen again, 3 or 4 times, without doing anything at all?
Finally there is the practice of assigned seating. This is very disempowering to students, because it removes from them the ability to simply sit on the other side of the room from the bully. If the students were allowed to do this in, let's say, 4th grade, then they might have some experience at avoiding bullies by the time they hit 6th grade or 7th grade.
When your kid is getting pounded on someone larger than them who has the might? Bigger kids have an advantage over smaller kids. Martial Arts takes the advatage away. On top of that we are not condoning fighting in the play ground. Our kids would tell them, if you really want to fight me come on over to the studio so we can have a real fight. One of two things happen. The bully backs down or they come to the studio. Either way a fight at school does not happen.
Every bully that I have ever met is scared. One of our older sons had a bully picking on him from 4th grade till 7th grade. We told him not to fight back. We tried taking it to the teacher, principle, and even the parents. No help. Finally my wife had enough. She had a meeting with the principle and told him how things were going to go. She had instructed our son to fight back, something that most martial artist are actually against. We try to walk away first. The principle was aware of what was going to happen the next time. This was the end of the school year, one week left. My wife and son were told that if the boys fought both would be out of school for the last week.
Well it happened, this kid picked on our son, and he got punched in the face, knocking him down. Game over. Both kids were suspended for the last week. Wow, an extra week of summer. Maybe they planned it. LOL
Anyway, the next year guess what happened. A kid decides to pick on our son. Two of his friends warn him that our son took out some big kid last year. No one ever messed with our son after that.
Since we got into Taekwondo we prefer to have kids fight in a controlled situation with sparring gear on. That is how we role now and it is much cooler. You would be surprised how many bully's want to get into Taekwondo after they are asked to come to the studio. Our instructors do not respect bully's. They teach them that it is not OK to bully other kids. For the most part though it seems that these kids learn something and find that they get self esteem from learning a Martial Art then from punching on kids.
How do the martial arts instructors know who is the bully and who isn't?
Of course they don't fit the mold. And it has nothing to do with me blaming them. What we should be doing is also (in addition to punishing the bully; which I have already discussed more than once) is helping to see why they don't fit in and exploring whether or not they may want to make some changes.
Let me give you a couple of examples.
We had one girl, age 12, who was being bullied because kids said she was dirty, her hair was stringy, she had BO, and her clothes were terrible. Well guess what...all of things were VERY true. Does it mean she should be bullied? Of course not. But the counselor, female PE teacher, and I sat down and worked out a plan. Then we discussed the situation with her. She could see the relationship between her "condition" and the bullying, but her stupid mother had never taught her anything related to hygiene (guess she didn't want to go there). So, the school bought her a supply of shampoo, soap, appropriate feminine products, tooth brush and tooth paste, etc. Actually, I shouldn't say the school bought the stuff. We personally bought the stuff. Each morning, as soon as she got off the bus, she would be allowed into the building while other kids waited outside the building for the opening bell, would go to the PE locker room, and clean herself up. The PE teacher even laundered her clothes for her. All the while teaching her about hygiene. We even contacted the high school when she moved on to get them on board. For the most part, the problem was solved. But I guess we shouldn't have gone there. Right?
You folks are AMAZING. Going out of your way, all of you, to help her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
Then there was the Little Professor who came into my office crying (literally) about having no friends and how kids were picking on him. So we had a little discussion about how the level of English he was using was not appropriate to his peer group. In fact, it wasn't even appropriate to the faculty. In fact, in my whole life I had never met a person who put on such airs, obviously trying to demonstrate his intellectual superiority. Well, despite understanding the issue, he wanted to continue as was. So we continued punishing the bullies, and he continued being bullied throughout middle school and, from what I understand, throughout high school. And, I can't imagine what kind of work environment he would have fit into. Hence, probably a life of unhappiness. But, we tried to help him understand that while bullying is never appropriate, sometimes makes himself/herself the target.
And that's what I'm talking about. Most of us understand how we can make ourselves the target of disdain. But some kids and adults do not. And frankly, they need some counseling.
This guy sounds a lot like me, I was always a technical/nerdy type with advanced interests, reading college textbooks starting in 7th grade and having difficulty connecting to peers. Now that I am a PH.D. student, I fit in perfectly. Maybe the kid should become a professor.....because then his professorial talk will be...just like his peers!
How do the martial arts instructors know who is the bully and who isn't?
A good source of information comes from parents, teachers, and other kids. In our studio kids are taught to respect adults, parents, teachers, other kids, and more important themselves. Bulling is not tolerated within our school. I can not say that about other schools though. I don't know what they are taught at other schools. Martial artist train all the time and have respect for each other. It is interesting to watch a sparring match and to see two kids help each other out. To see more experienced kids help others in more than just training. Our kids are encouraged to do good in school and I have seen kids help each other with homework. My kids have done that with other kids.
You folks are AMAZING. Going out of your way, all of you, to help her.
This guy sounds a lot like me, I was always a technical/nerdy type with advanced interests, reading college textbooks starting in 7th grade and having difficulty connecting to peers. Now that I am a PH.D. student, I fit in perfectly. Maybe the kid should become a professor.....because then his professorial talk will be...just like his peers!
No, this boy was beyond any adult that I have ever interacted with. Heck, I've never met a college professor who talked like this boy. Not even close. This was way beyond "nerdiness". Think Sheldon in spades. In fact, eventually his parents put him in therapy for just this.
Part of life is learning how to fit in. Knowing in what settings certain behaviors work, and in what settings certain ways of interacting do not work. And I know that you do it, as do most of us. We behave differently with our colleagues than we do our pals out for a drink on Friday evening.
I think middle/upper-middle class girls engage in passive aggressive bullying. Girls from poorer backgrounds are more willing to lay hands on another girl that's trying to bully them.
I always say, attack the bully and hard to discourage reprisals. Most kids feel pressured to deal with bullies on that bully's terms. If your teachers aren't helping you despite everyone knowing you're being abused, plan a wise attack strategy. This includes pouring sugar in their gas tank, various levels of armed assault etc.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
