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If you paid $40K for a car that turned out to be a lemon, would you say "well, life's not fair, guess I'll have to accept it" or would you be raising holy heck over it? That's my point for this -- we let colleges off the hook on too many things because "students need to deal with it" or "they need to learn life's not fair" or similar platitudes that do nothing to fix the underlying problem. Poor performance isn't acceptable in other walks of life -- why is it acceptable in education?
It isn't acceptable in education, either. But your ADULT child is the one who should be raising holy heck, not you.
If their first boss is incompetent, are you intervening then, too?
I'm puzzled that parents intervene when they feel like things aren't going well once the child is in college, but remained silent when said child made the decision to spend ridiculous amounts of money on an Art History degree.
I'm tired of people mocking kids for majoring in Art History. My former physician majored in art history.
If you paid $40K for a car that turned out to be a lemon, would you say "well, life's not fair, guess I'll have to accept it" or would you be raising holy heck over it? That's my point for this -- we let colleges off the hook on too many things because "students need to deal with it" or "they need to learn life's not fair" or similar platitudes that do nothing to fix the underlying problem. Poor performance isn't acceptable in other walks of life -- why is it acceptable in education?
more people put more time/thought into choosing a car than they do choosing a college...
they look at consumer reports for reliability, longevity, how well it holds its price, how expensive it is to own a car
what do they look up when they look at a college? do they even go "test" drive the campus like they test drive a car to get a feel if it fits them?
Unless they're financing the lawsuit, there's no place for parents in college.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RosieSD
I do want to add that I do think there are a few situations where parents of college students should intervene:
1. If their child is experiencing mental health issues -- depression, cutting, substance abuse, severe anxiety, etc.
2. If their child has been sexually or physically assaulted on campus, or seems in danger of being assaulted on campus.
These are situations where stepping in to make sure your child gets the proper help is the right thing to do.
Exactly. I had a friend in college who slipped on a very icy sidewalk. The school had received several inches of snow, the sidewalks weren't cleared, the sidewalk was VERY icy, and the professor had an absence clause in the syllabus stating that any more than three absences in a semester would mean a failing grade. Knowing her grade was on the line, she had to go to class. She tore her rotator cuff which meant she wasn't allowed to play her clarinet or piano (music education major). The school tried to fail her and a lot of nastiness ensued when she tried to demonstrate that her injuries were the fault of the school not clearing the sidewalks.
So the school tried to say that she didn't "have to go to class." Luckily she had the syllabus with the absence clause. I don't know all of the details of what happened, but now, if there is snow, the school will close down and cancel classes, this never happened in the past.
You can bet that the parents were advocates for their child, along with the lawyer they hired.
Basically never, unless the student's safety or mental/physical health is at risk. If they can't fight minimal battles like the one presented in the original post by the time they're in college, it's long past time to learn.
(Edit: before I opened this thread, I thought it would be about a college freshman who hasn't left her dorm room since move in day, or a freshman frat pledge who has been in the hospital twice for alcohol poisoning.
A crappy professor? Bwahahahaha!! How are you planning on intervening, mom?)
Last edited by strawflower; 10-01-2017 at 06:31 PM..
There's always learning going on. Having a professor or two who don't know their arse from a hole in the ground is good preparation for having bosses and customers who don't either. Sometimes the lesson is do what you're told so you can move on. I had two idiot professors in my undergrad and I learned to figure out what they wanted and give it to them. Had I done that last year with my job I'd still have that job. I made the mistake of taking him at his word that this was a learning year. I forgot that lesson but it's really a good thing because the person that would have taken the lay off if I hadn't couldn't have survived it financially whereas I can so better me than her even though I can see that had I treated my old new boss like I did those professors I'd be his new best friend and making 20% more than I'm making now.
...And besides, you can't believe what every student claims about every professor. Some complain because they don't want to blame themselves for doing poorly.
if a kid, no make that a young adult, is running into problems at college, then it is real life practice for doing real life in the real world. I talked with my kids in terms of identifying the problem, problem solving, identifying possible options, what are their choices, what are the possible outcomes of each, what does this situation ask of them, what is their desired outcome, how best can they achieve that. It is great practice for working in the real world: there will be people they don't like, they don't get along with, how can they think in terms of problem solving and win-win. And it is up to them to make the decisions and deal with the outcome and natural consequences.
all good skills to have to succeed in the real world
Since about 4th grade and onwards they have had responsibility for their own school work, their own school decisions, the outcome of their choices. If they were in trouble with something they'd talk about it to me (yes sometimes with a "don't tell Dad") but they knew the decision was theirs. My part was asking the kinds of questions that would help them identify their goals, and discuss options how to achieve them. One son was absolutely crushed when he was denied admission after 3 attempts to the undergraduate major of his choice (at that public university the computer science degree was apparently as competitive as medical school admission, this for an UNDERGRADUATE major). What made it worse was that his younger brother was admitted to that major first try same school, and he didn't really even want it. Anyway the older son picked a different major, graduated, and it has turned out well because he ended up in a management track and currently has 32 people he oversees in his division.
Problem solving, win-win, navigating difficult situations, working with people who are difficult, are all excellent skills to have in the real world, get all the practice you can at every opportunity.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 10-01-2017 at 07:41 PM..
When you major in the arts, sometimes you can meet some very weird teachers who will personally attack you and try to mess with your head. One of my crazy teachers called me at home twice (pre-cell phone era) and started curing me out. I did go to my parents, several times, crying my eyes out. I was in over my head and had no idea how to handle these types of situations. They gave me some advice. After that teacher called my house a second time, they told me to put it all in writing and give that letter to the dean. When that didn't help, I went to the provost's office. My parents told me to keep records of everything. I had neither the maturity nor the experience to know that or how to handle any of it. But my parents never, ever contacted the school on my behalf or spoke to anyone at school directly.
Now I know, in certain situations, keep records/a diary. Put everything in writing and keep copies and records of all contact. Use the chain of command if necessary. Lessons well learned.
If a child is suicidal, they should go home or to a mental health facility immediately. The RA and Dean are not responsible (or trained) for the mental health of your child.
Actually, the RA does have some responsibility, at least to recommend the student go to the health clinic or hospital, especially if s/he is in crisis. RA's have been known to actually drive a suicidal student to a campus or off-campus hospital after hours, and make sure they go inside and register. At some universities, they get training for how to handle such crises. I don't know if that's true at all universities. Often, the RA is the first person to know the student has a mental health problem; the parents may be thousands of miles away, and not have a clue.
Offer advice if they ask, such as go to the academic ombudsman or the dean, but it is the adult student's place to decide how to address their own problems.
I come from a working class background, and my family's attitude, and those of most of my friends, is that when the kid turns 18, they're on their own. Like most of the posters in this thread, they feel like the kid has to learn to stand on his own two feet, and the parent backing off is the way to do that.
But I joined a church that has a lot of rich people, and I got to be pretty good friends with them, and they often had their adult children come visit them and talk out problems. There are a lot of issues that come up after the age of 18 that could use the advice from people who've been through it. And the parents would give advice - important advice. There are huge decisions that have to be made between the ages of 18 and 25+, and telling the kid to do it on their own really cuts their chances of making good choices.
I think that's one of the reasons the best predictor of future earnings is how your parents did.
If your college-age kid is dealing with a bad professor, and they have learned to come to you for help, they are not necessarily asking that you go in and yell at the dean, or even contact the college. They want your perspective on what is reasonable to expect, and what the lines of authority and responsibiilty are. They need to have a better sense of what their options are. Certainly one of the most valuable lessons you learn in college is how to deal with a bureacracy, and how to deal with obstreperous people, and how to recognize that soon enough to get out before the transfer period is over.
Be on your kids' side. Give them whatever advice you can. It's unique to each situation. Tenure does NOT mean professors can't be fired, there are lots of tenured professors that get fired, but usually because they are not politically correct, not because of poor performance in the classroom.
At one the universities I attended, almost all the professors were there because they were able to bring in millions of dollars for research grants. Most professors acted like they considered undergraduate class time as an intrusion upon their real work. I wasted a year of my life, and dropped out. When it came time for my daughter to choose her school, I was sure to help her choose one where educating the undergraduate was a top priority, and helped her pick out schools like that.
Stay involved, be on their side, give them the benefit of your experience. That doesn't mean that you should go in yourself, that's the kids' job.
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