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I agree. One of my friends was on the admissions board at NYU and said they were more impressed by a B student from a challenged school than an A student from a highly ranked school.
Virtually everything I have ever read, and heard from school admissions people is "grades and test scores". Highly ranked schools generally have lots of AP/IB courses and the like.
OP here - I appreciate all of the feedback. With my youngest starting kindergarten soon it’s definitely a very complex choice. I no longer live in NYC, but have friends that do, and that is why I was making that comparison. We are moving to an Atlanta suburb with excellent public schools (some of the top in the state), so that is why I asked about private versus top public schools versus alternative/independent schooling.
I sometimes question the education process in general, and if we are doing enough whether through the public (very likely not) or even through the private side to examine the way in which we educate children. Just because that’s how it was when we went to school, or how it has always been done does not mean that it is always effective.
We keep having the debate about how our public education system is broken, and some of the charter schools are scams (but certainly not all) and how some private schools are not necessarily better than great public schools, but I also want to provide my kids the most effective and beneficial way to become educated, intelligent, to be critical thinkers, but also to be creative and have the skills necessary for a transitioning economy.
I’m not necessity progressive, and don’t believe in change for the sake of change, but at the same time, can we keep relying on an outdated system and judging intelligence and qualification for colleges, grad schools and jobs solely on grades and test scores? I’ve read a few articles and some TED talks lately that have made me think about the whole process.
OP here - I appreciate all of the feedback. With my youngest starting kindergarten soon it’s definitely a very complex choice. I no longer live in NYC, but have friends that do, and that is why I was making that comparison. We are moving to an Atlanta suburb with excellent public schools (some of the top in the state), so that is why I asked about private versus top public schools versus alternative/independent schooling.
I sometimes question the education process in general, and if we are doing enough whether through the public (very likely not) or even through the private side to examine the way in which we educate children. Just because that’s how it was when we went to school, or how it has always been done does not mean that it is always effective.
We keep having the debate about how our public education system is broken, and some of the charter schools are scams (but certainly not all) and how some private schools are not necessarily better than great public schools, but I also want to provide my kids the most effective and beneficial way to become educated, intelligent, to be critical thinkers, but also to be creative and have the skills necessary for a transitioning economy.
I’m not necessity progressive, and don’t believe in change for the sake of change, but at the same time, can we keep relying on an outdated system and judging intelligence and qualification for colleges, grad schools and jobs solely on grades and test scores? I’ve read a few articles and some TED talks lately that have made me think about the whole process.
I was in your position a few years back and was grappling with the very questions that you are now. We went the private route when all was said and done. Our decision however came down to a well regarded private school in our area vs a highly rated school in one of the best public school districts in our area.
During our tours, research etc we found out that a lot of private schools simply weren’t worth the cost of admission to us because they didn’t offer an education you couldn’t get in a well rated public school. That was a surprise. There was a lot of exclusivity but not much (educational) substance.
So what would we get in a well rated public school? Experienced, well paid teachers, a generally intelligent student body(tended to go hand in hand with SES in attendance zone), well equipped schools ( adequate supplies and facilities) relative safety, a rigidly defined curriculum with ample testing where the school had good test scores proven over time. Overall school policies/ curriculum/ staffing etc were susceptible to political influence.
Sounds wonderful overall. But here’s what we wanted;
Very experienced (definitely well paid) teachers with lots of experience in the grades/ subjects they are assigned. Teachers whom, because of their experience and credentials, have some flexibility within a broadly defined but challenging curriculum. A definitely intelligent student body regardless of SES ( though skewed to the higher end of SES, nature of the beast) A progressive approach to education that embraces change and innovation in learning, employs best practices based on how kids learn, encourages experiential learning and critical thought, zero political influence on budget/ curriculum/goals, then the obvious- well equipped( supplies, facilities) safety, AND impressive test scores and matriculation when all is said and done.
We found that in a private school. Had we found even most of it in a public school, we would have gone public.
In spite of the fact that we are in an extremely well regarded private school; there are still issues. Yes, problems exist even at the very top. Schools are by their very nature designed to teach the masses. Even private schools. They will not work for everyone all the time. American schools, whether public or private defer a lot of heavy lifting to the parent. No matter what choice you make, expect to do lots of other work. The kind of work you do to produce your well rounded, critically thinking educated individual will differ based on what choice you make but there will still be gaps you need to fill regardless of what choice you make.
In summary, my advice is; narrowly define what you are looking for in your child’s education. Then go find it. It may be public or private. It may end up being homeschool. But start with knowing exactly what you are looking for and contrast that with what’s on offer; much like shopping for anything else. Understand that because your kids are so young ‘what you are looking for’ will likely change based on what type of kids they end up being/ what kind of learners they are. You may have to go back and forth between public and private or other options.
Chase a learning philosophy not a school type or reputation. No matter what you do, none of your choices will be perfect but you’ll at least be at peace with your decision.
I'm going to be the cautionary one here and remind everyone that there are thousands of school system in the US operating under the supervision of 51 different state boards of education, each one with differing rules for attendance, testing, course offerings, funding, rules for charter schools, etc.
OP here - I appreciate all of the feedback. With my youngest starting kindergarten soon it’s definitely a very complex choice. I no longer live in NYC, but have friends that do, and that is why I was making that comparison. We are moving to an Atlanta suburb with excellent public schools (some of the top in the state), so that is why I asked about private versus top public schools versus alternative/independent schooling.
I sometimes question the education process in general, and if we are doing enough whether through the public (very likely not) or even through the private side to examine the way in which we educate children. Just because that’s how it was when we went to school, or how it has always been done does not mean that it is always effective.
We keep having the debate about how our public education system is broken, and some of the charter schools are scams (but certainly not all) and how some private schools are not necessarily better than great public schools, but I also want to provide my kids the most effective and beneficial way to become educated, intelligent, to be critical thinkers, but also to be creative and have the skills necessary for a transitioning economy.
I’m not necessity progressive, and don’t believe in change for the sake of change, but at the same time, can we keep relying on an outdated system and judging intelligence and qualification for colleges, grad schools and jobs solely on grades and test scores? I’ve read a few articles and some TED talks lately that have made me think about the whole process.
I don't know if you mentioned your children's ages before or not, but I am totally shocked at the bold. Kindergarten! Believe me, there is virtually nothing a private school could teach your child in kindergarten that a highly rated, "best in the state" public school couldn't do. There's probably nothing the private Ks are doing that's not being done in public K.
I think this idea that the public system is broken is very destructive. For decades, this "debate" has been going on. It has not helped the public system that schools and teachers have been so maligned. Thirty years ago, we were being compared negatively to Japan based on test scores. "If we just did things like Japan", blah, blah. Then the Japanese system was looked at more closely (because they were so wonderful) and surprise! They had their problems too. More recently, it's been Finland, although Finland's scores have slipped a little recently. And we find out that while Finland doesn't teach reading until 7, most Finnish kids have been in preschool for years prior.
It's hard to compare different countries. They all have different ways of reporting things. It turns out that China only reports scores of kids in some big cities. Etc.
School is not the same as it's always been. Kids don't sit in rows of assigned seats, forbidden to talk unless they raise their hands, etc. Different learning styles are at least acknowledged. There's online education, off campus courses at the community college for kids who've taken every course in a subject area that's offered at high school, and more. Some things don't change, or rather, "the more things change the more they stay the same" as one of my daughters noted when I told her some stories from my high school days in a steel mill town in Pennsylvania, compared to hers at a big suburban high school in Colorado high tech country. Kids are still kids. So I'd say it's the same but different.
I'd stay away from TED talks and other advocacy stuff if you want to study education. Read actual research and professional sources instead.
I don't know if you mentioned your children's ages before or not, but I am totally shocked at the bold. Kindergarten! Believe me, there is virtually nothing a private school could teach your child in kindergarten that a highly rated, "best in the state" public school couldn't do. There's probably nothing the private Ks are doing that's not being done in public K.
I think this idea that the public system is broken is very destructive. For decades, this "debate" has been going on. It has not helped the public system that schools and teachers have been so maligned. Thirty years ago, we were being compared negatively to Japan based on test scores. "If we just did things like Japan", blah, blah. Then the Japanese system was looked at more closely (because they were so wonderful) and surprise! They had their problems too. More recently, it's been Finland, although Finland's scores have slipped a little recently. And we find out that while Finland doesn't teach reading until 7, most Finnish kids have been in preschool for years prior.
It's hard to compare different countries. They all have different ways of reporting things. It turns out that China only reports scores of kids in some big cities. Etc.
School is not the same as it's always been. Kids don't sit in rows of assigned seats, forbidden to talk unless they raise their hands, etc. Different learning styles are at least acknowledged. There's online education, off campus courses at the community college for kids who've taken every course in a subject area that's offered at high school, and more. Some things don't change, or rather, "the more things change the more they stay the same" as one of my daughters noted when I told her some stories from my high school days in a steel mill town in Pennsylvania, compared to hers at a big suburban high school in Colorado high tech country. Kids are still kids. So I'd say it's the same but different.
I'd stay away from TED talks and other advocacy stuff if you want to study education. Read actual research and professional sources instead.
[b][color="darkred"]Believe me, there is virtually nothing a private school could teach your child in kindergarten that a highly rated, "best in the state" public school couldn't do. There's probably nothing the private Ks are doing that's not being done in public K.
I both agree and disagree.
“...virtually nothing a private school could teach ....in kindergarten...that a public couldnt do”
I agree. But while they could doesn’t mean they do. Which leads me to:
“...probably nothing private K’s are doing that’s not being done in public K”
You’re wrong on that one. There’s actually plenty that private K’s have the time, flexibility and sometimes money to do that cannot be done in public kindergarten for one not-their-fault reason or another.
Whether those differences are worth the cost of private school is up to individuals to decide.
“...virtually nothing a private school could teach ....in kindergarten...that a public couldnt do”
I agree. But while they could doesn’t mean they do. Which leads me to:
“...probably nothing private K’s are doing that’s not being done in public K”
You’re wrong on that one. There’s actually plenty that private K’s have the time, flexibility and sometimes money to do that cannot be done in public kindergarten for one not-their-fault reason or another.
Whether those differences are worth the cost of private school is up to individuals to decide.
Perhaps you could tell me about this. Just what are these private schools doing in K that's not being done in public K? I'm really nonplussed that the OP is so worried about this for a kindergartner.
Time- A lot of districts have full-day K now. Do the private schools?
Flexibiity- What does that mean? Yeah, private schools don't have to meet standards in many cases. That's not necessarily a good thing.
Perhaps you could tell me about this. Just what are these private schools doing in K that's not being done in public K? I'm really nonplussed that the OP is so worried about this for a kindergartner.
Time- A lot of districts have full-day K now. Do the private schools?
Flexibiity- What does that mean? Yeah, private schools don't have to meet standards in many cases. That's not necessarily a good thing.
Sometimes money-key word being sometimes.
Both public and private kinder around here is full day.
I’ll speak for my school and several others in the area I live in. Public schools in my area are mostly quite good and I believe the private schools know this and plan their offerings accordingly.
Ours is a K-12 school with campus amenities to match that range of students. The kindergarten kids get to use all of it of it... the pool, the tennis courts, the performing arts center, the computer and science labs, the gardens, art and music facilities computer labs, the library and all its amenities not to mention sports and school spirit events (and audiences) typically limited to high schools. A lot of their lessons become less theoretical and more practical and project based in nature as a result.
In addition they offer extras here and there e.g learning two languages in addition to english, swimming as a part of P.E class during certain semesters,
Is that standard among all private schools? No. But these are pretty standard offerings among K-12 private schools around here.
Our school does not evaluate using state standards although some of the curriculum is built from common core. There are no grades and no class rankings. In high school, AP load is restricted or simply unavailable in some subjects. In spite of snubbing ‘standards’ as a criteria for achievement the average SAT score at graduation is well over 1400 year in year out and they have high percentages of National merit semi and finalist scholars so a lack of adherence to ‘standards’ hasn’t hurt academic achievement. The school has its own methods for evaluating learning (and teachers)and it seems to be working fine.
Perhaps you could tell me about this. Just what are these private schools doing in K that's not being done in public K? I'm really nonplussed that the OP is so worried about this for a kindergartner.
Time- A lot of districts have full-day K now. Do the private schools?
Flexibiity- What does that mean? Yeah, private schools don't have to meet standards in many cases. That's not necessarily a good thing.
Sometimes money-key word being sometimes.
In all day private K, my kids had individualized instruction. They could stay with their own class, their own age, but work at their pace. My boys could do long division and read chapter books where other kids might be working on normal K stuff...addition/subtraction/Bob books. They did science, geography social studies,, music, spanish, art, stem class, and daily PE. Most public schools focus on reading and math only in K. My kids could label a map of Europe/Asia/Africa/etc. and tell you about the countries. They were taught to tie their own shoes, decide when to eat snack and time themselves doing so, they were taught to respect their fellow classmates with their voices, with the way they walked around the classroom. They had to clean up after themselves in the classroom and at the lunch table. They exceeded the public school standards by FAR. The early years are the foundation for life, having my kids appropriately challenged, but also enjoying learning has made them more diligent workers in middle school than I ever was.
The basic standards at accredited independent private schools will almost always be higher than at public schools because the majority of them aim at above average students. Some private schools exist for certain special needs. Others will excel with kids who might be 2E (like my middle who has a very high IQ but a LD as well, and individualize private school will work with him and his tutor to meet his potential, even a great public school will say, sorry...no services because he can get B's without help, even though he has a straight A IQ). Good public schools can track and differentiate for kids too, but their basic standards are for the average student, not for the above average students, and they do not differentiate as well as a small private school can, their teachers understandably just do not have time for that. My kids' classes in K-6 were split into groups...never more than 7-8 kids with a teacher at a time, they could individualize, they could adjust expectations for different kids. That's what I wanted for my kids...and I think the public schools in our area do a great job, but the private school does a better job for the type of learners my children are.
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