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"...and if the student finds that this is not to his taste? Well, that is regrettable. Most regrettable. The student's taste should not be consulted; it is being formed."
"...and if the student finds that this is not to his taste? Well, that is regrettable. Most regrettable. The student's taste should not be consulted; it is being formed."
Well, I rather doubt that Flannery O'Connor would qualify as an authoritarian. But you probably don't know who Flannery O'Connor was.
Children do not know the things that adults know. Among the things that children don't know, that adults do know, is just what it is that children don't know.
This is why we employ adults who have also been trained, to teach children the things that they need to know. It's an imperfect system but it's the best that anyone has come up with.
Do you really think that mammal mothers just leave their offspring to figure everything out themselves? No, they don't. That's how they learn things like how to hunt, or how to band together for protection. If a herding animal's calf falls behind or straggles off, she does not allow it the freedom to find out about predation; she goes after it and gets it in line, with the appropriate nips and shoves as needed.
Well, I rather doubt that Flannery O'Connor would qualify as an authoritarian. But you probably don't know who Flannery O'Connor was.
Children do not know the things that adults know. Among the things that children don't know, that adults do know, is just what it is that children don't know.
This is why we employ adults who have also been trained, to teach children the things that they need to know. It's an imperfect system but it's the best that anyone has come up with.
Do you really think that mammal mothers just leave their offspring to figure everything out themselves? No, they don't. That's how they learn things like how to hunt, or how to band together for protection. If a herding animal's calf falls behind or straggles off, she does not allow it the freedom to find out about predation; she goes after it and gets it in line, with the appropriate nips and shoves as needed.
All a load of nonsense. No one claimed that adults know less than kids, what I did say was that kids have a yearning to learn and instead of allowing that curious side to prosper the school system beats them to a pulp until all they care about is getting good grade and watching something dumb like spongebob in their free time.
As for Flannery O’Connor, you’re right, I don’t know who he is. But I haven’t even taken a second to search up his name because that one quote is so radically devoid of sense no context can save it from being anything but authoritarian propaganda.
Edit: turns out it’s a she, and yet my point still sounds.
as a conservative, I say yes, but what i mean, I support liberal education, might be different from democratic. I believe in education you should be taught everything, and then decide on your own.
as a conservative, I say yes, but what i mean, I support liberal education, might be different from democratic. I believe in education you should be taught everything, and then decide on your own.
That’s not bad, but I think it should go further being as how destructive the current propaganda model we have right now:
I'm an anarcho-syndicalist or anarchist-communist (which ever you prefer).
It won't be a matter of brainwashing students into patriotism or indoctrinating them to grow up expecting to work in the capitalist wage society, but allowing a more free society based off of free thought and creativity to lead the future.
So who's with me?
Quote:
Children do not know the things that adults know. Among the things that children don't know, that adults do know, is just what it is that children don't know.
I have not heard any capitalists, anarcho or otherwise, suggesting mandatory accounting in the schools.
I agree with the second quote to a degree but a lot of adults do not seem to notice that hundreds of billions of dollars of depreciation are ignored by the Communist, Socialist and Capitalist economists.
Machines wear out. It is physics not just economics.
A National Recommended Reading List could help kids and parents regardless of what nonsense is happening in the schools. Of course who will make the list or lists?
Yeah, I don't like the idea of privately run schools, there needs to be some network of institutions that mutually set them up (like a federation).
In the long term though I'd like to see us move away from the grade system as not only does it stifle learning, but it also creates a machine were students work for grades so they can get a wage job in the corporate market after they get out.
That shouldn't be the basis of our society, learning should be a voluntary and social aspect of society for kids and teenagers, not an economic one. Get rid of the power corporate economic system and allow people to live based off of democratic and egalitarian principles like the Zapatistas.
Is that REALLY why MOST kids work for grades? I intrinsically valued reading and learning all through school. Unlike many parents, mine never paid me for grades. I was a solid B+ student, because that's what I wanted to be. I had some subjects I liked more than others but did well in all. What I hated then and still dislike are anxiety-ridden over achievers who seem more compulsive than anything to me. I wanted to learn for myself and once I did what was needed for a class I could do more on my own if I wanted. I went to a liberal arts college though my dad thought it was kind of a waste - all those "___ appreciation" courses. Well, I took those as required and then got a strong degree as well in a discipline I liked that pays relatively well.
Yes, I dislike people who are incurious on their own and cheated to get grades and a degree just so they could get a job...but that is a cynical choice they made and not a necessity. One I'd also guess their parents made for them by paying and bribing them to get good grades rather than trusting that most of them would do as well or better without all that.
i'm an anarcho-syndicalist or anarchist-communist (which ever you prefer).
One of the principles of this libertarian socialist movement is democratic schools like those seen in anarchist manchuria and more recently in the zapatista territories of mexico.
just to look at the examples the zapatistas have set, each autonomous community will have schools built either individually or with the help of a larger federation so it won't be a charter school or a for-profit school. The function is where we get to the interesting part...
As this can be imagined in today's society with public schools, that is why i bring the discussion forward:
The community and the student body will set the curriculum for a given class year (even in the lower classes) and work won't be valued by grades, but voluntary participation.
That way ranking and grade pressure won't affect choices while the cynical minds of the state/school management won't have a monopoly on what creative students want to learn. Of course the basics would be pressured by the community, but how these classes are taught would be interesting. It won't be a matter of brainwashing students into patriotism or indoctrinating them to grow up expecting to work in the capitalist wage society, but allowing a more free society based off of free thought and creativity to lead the future.
So who's with me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterfall8324
that’s not bad, but i think it should go further being as how destructive the current propaganda model we have right now:
Wow. Both of these Wikipedia pages are just chock full of meaningless buzzwords seemingly strung together by a pseudo-language generator.
This so-called “Democratic Education” sounds great in a world where no skills or knowledge are required to survive & thrive, there is no knowledge worth passing on, and all progress has been not only halted but demonized. This is some next level “Lord of the Flies” stuff.
I’m sure there is a huge list of technological, medical, and economic discoveries that the Zapatistas have developed for the people’s of the world. I guess that you haven’t written that Wikipedia page yet.
The community and the student body will set the curriculum for a given class year (even in the lower classes) and work won't be valued by grades, but voluntary participation.
Would you consult physician who had been ... um, 'educated' ... in medicine in such a fashion?
How about a pilot, trained according to a regimen conjured by the 'community' along with the various pilot-wannabes, and who graduated not because of his performance but because he participated?
Me neither.
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... in medicine in such a fashion? 
