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We pay extra to fly only on airlines that will not serve peanut products. We pay extra for baseball tickets to sit in seats that are less crowded so he will not be seated next to someone eating peanuts. We carry wipes to wipe down the airline seats and ballpark seats. We teach him to NEVER take food from others, to ALWAYS question the ingredients, to frequently wash his hands. The list goes on and on. We take extra precautions ALL THE TIME!
but, but, wait!, can't the EXACT same thing be accomplished by establishing peanut free tables at school? aren't you basically doing the same thing at the ball park that a you could do if there was a peanut free table at school? if the ball park doesn't need to go peanut free for your child to feel safe, why does the school need to do the same?
I guess the point is this...there are so many children with these allergies and the reactions are so volatile, what is the harm in having a peanut free area? It is no different than having a smoke free environment in a public area.
I do not have a child with peanut allergies but I can see how frightened these parents are.
in the grand scheme of things, there really aren't that many kids w/ severe allergies, and even fewer kids w/ allergies so bad that they can't be helped by installing peanut free tables. smoke affects EVERYONE NEGATIVELY around it, peanuts don't. now, like I've said many times, if a school wants to set up a peanut free area, they have my full, 100% blessing, and I doubt many people (other than the parents who are feeling victimized in some dumb way) would object to this. however, this peanut free area should not be the whole school.
Well, sometimes rules and regulations are made to accomodate a few...that's the way life works.
and sometimes, folks have got to realize that only so much accommodating can be done before it starts to affect other people (b/c then you'll have to start accommodating the people being inconvenienced by these previous accommodations!). the needs of all people can not always be met...that's the way life works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstewart
What would it hurt for your child to bring something besides a peanut product if you knew it would keep another child safe? !
please list some other options. what should a vegetarian kid eat, or a kid whose parents can't afford pricey cold cuts? what about the vast majority of people who can't afford a $4+ jar of Sunbutter (esp. when the equivalent amount of non name brand p. butter can be had at a quarter of the price)?
don't know if you've noticed, but stuff is more expensive now. for many families, peanut putter is the least expensive, healthiest source of protein out there (well, maybe hummus can be as cheap if you can get the chickpeas cheaply and make it yourself, but how many kids do you know that are going to substitute a PB&J sandwich for a hummus sandwich? or tofu sandwich? ). again, kids have been eating PB&J sandwiches since the Medieval Ages, and kids are going to keep eating it, unless the entire world population is going to develop these super allergies. some families either can't or don't want to change this (I have another reason why people may be so against the ban that I'll go into below)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstewart
What should this mother do? Pull her child out of school because you want your child to eat peanut brittle? Come on! !
no, the mother should make due w/ a peanut free table if the allergy isn't that bad. and if the allergy is so bad that even being in the same air space as someone eating a PB sandwich can cause a reaction, than yes, that child should seek alternative schooling
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstewart
If her child is not able to get an education in the class room setting because he/she can not be accomodated, another alternative has to be offered and this comes right from your tax dollar...it seems from your reponses thus far you would complain about that as well.
NO ONE is saying the kid can't come to school and get an education! last I checked, kids weren't eating PB out of the jar during history class, or snacking on shelled peanuts during arts and crafts, unless times have changed since I last went to elementary school! a kid eating a PB sandwich during lunch is NOT going to affect the quality of education your child will receive in the classroom! again, we're talking about a brief lunch period where a child may be exposed, during which the child can be protected be sitting in a peanut free area. like I said above, the only way not having a peanut free school is going to affect your kid is if the very smell of it coming from a nearby student's lunch bag gives them hives, then, again, these kids should be in an alternative school
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstewart
Is your child ONLY able to eat peanuts or something? What do you think is fair? Maybe we should take down handicap ramps because I trip on them and only a few use them!
why do people insist on using these stupid comparisons of wheelchair ramps to peanut butter? for the umpteenth time, IT'S PURE IDIOCY TO COMPARE THE TWO! a ramp DOES NOT affect my day to day life, doesn't affect my wallet, and is required by ADA law anyways.
frankly, it's not even about peanut butter. it's the whole idea of banning something so a very small population of people can benefit. people don't like bans on stuff they like (look up Prohibition for an example). even parents who rarely feed their child PB may feel the need to protest this b/c this ban affects everyone for the benefit of a few. plus, you start to worry what sort of precedent something like this would set (hey, little Johnny is allergic to tuna, let's ban tuna!). And, as I said before (and NO ONE pro peanut ban has addressed this question. figures. ) the liability of the school, should this ban fail, would be immense b/c you know the parents will take out their lax scrutiny on the school (once people start placing more of the responsibilty of their child's safety into the hands of others, they will start to blame those others when they drop the ball. it's happened plenty of times before).
yes, people sympathize w/ these sick kids, but most may not be willing to go through such a ban. OF COURSE, if the parents vote to go peanut free, and the majority agree, then there's no issue at all! if a parent chooses not to pack a PB sandwich to support an allergic child, that's great, then there's no issue at all! but when you take away that choice from people, when you force a ban on them, then you'll start hearing complaints. most parents don't care about candy and soda bans b/c they agree they are generally unhealthy and should be ingested in limited amounts. most parents are ok w/ cell phone bans b/c they realize they are a distraction (though there ARE parents who disagree and think cell phones should be allowed since it's an important form of contact). but the vast majority of people seen nothing wrong w/ peanuts and may not agree w/ the complete banning of them to the benefit of a few students. I think that's why people are really upset, substitute "peanut butter" w/ any other generally well loved, healthy food item (apple juice, graham crackers, etc) and you'd likely have the same response
* whew, I really need to figure out how to do that multi quote thing*
This is exactly my point. You are deeming me "not worth the while" because I don't agree with you. Why is your opinion so much more valuable?
I'm not the ONLY parent who thinks this way. You expect those of us who disagree to see your point, because, of course, it's the only one that makes any sense (to you maybe, but not to the rest of us), but you fail to see our point.
Because you want my child responsible for your child's life is pretty selfish. And what happens when your child reaches middle school or high school age where during the school day he/she will be in many different rooms and nobody will care that he/she is allergic to peanuts? Those kids will take what they please to school. They will leave wrappers around and touch each other and maybe not wash their hands first.
If my child, even inadvertantly took a peanut product to school, and your child had a life threatening reaction, would you blame my child? Isn't that a terribly heavy responsibility? Kids wipe their hands on their clothes often, especially little ones. If a 5 or 6 or 7 year old had peanut butter on toast for breakfast and wiped his/her fingers on their pantleg, or shirt, and your child had a reaction from it at school, who would you blame for that? I'm not sure I would want it to be my child you blame. But then I would have to restrict what my child ate at home as well as at school to accomodate your child. Where would it end?
I apologize for that...of course everyone's opinions is worthwhile. But this can be such a hot topic...sometimes very hard to find a middle ground. I know my wife is much more "hot under the collar" than I am about this. Sorry for my tone more of a generalization sometimes than pointed at you as I dont know you. One of those things I wrote when I had a few minutes.
And if something would happen we would not blame a kid or parent depending on the school system and how the handle it could chalk it up to something that happens or look at ways for the school to improve. My neice with the 10 yr old peanut allergy child has a pretty strict 504 plan with the school the kid is in detailing how exactly the school is to respond. Now we have never researched this 504 plan yet as it is too soon...
I do think this discussion is very eye opening for all
Have you investigated possible food allergy treatments for your kid. My wife works as a therapist at the local hospital and just so happen about 1 1/2 yrs ago was talking with another co-worker who knew someone who was being treated for food allergies and asthma at a clinic in LaCrosse WI (Allergy Associates, Inc). I am not sure if I can link their website as I dont want to promote advertising...but just google it. Our son is allergic to eggs milk peanuts tree nuts mold and grain dust.
It is a wonderful place with people coming from all over the midwest if not beyond. We first found out that our kid had milk allergies when he was at one year old (after a year of going thru crying...acid reflux and eczema). He was tested for milk and eggs then and came back positive. Our pedatrician who is excellent said there were really no treatments...but that many kids do out grow milk/egg allergies in a few years.
I had environmental allergies such as pollen....grass...mold as a kid and took allergy shots once a week for two years when I was 5-6 years old or so back in the 70s. Food allergies cannot be treated in such a way as too much of the allergen would have to be injected into the person thru the arm to be effective. The treatment like any allergy is to get the body to eventually build up a resistance to it...for many kids even a small amount of the food allergen can cause a life threatening reaction.
So fast forward a bit and we discovered the clinic in Lacrosse WI which was started by a doctor who studied Sublingual Immunotherapy and its use in Europe in the late 60s. This process involves drops containing the food allergen in very small quantities as to not cause a reaction and these drops are taken orally in the mouth where it does impact a place in the back of the mouth under the tongue which is the nerve center which tells the body what to reject food wise (at least this is the layman explanation given me by our doctor). Over time the amount of allergen in the drops are built up so that you see through blood work how strong the bodies reaction to these allergens. We started this at age 1 1/2....and our son is now 3 1/4 yrs old. We have two vials (each lasting 90 days -- one containing all the food allergens he is allergic too and the other the environmental allergens he is allergic too such as mold an grain dust). We place a drop from each vial into his mouth 3 times a day and go back to the clinic every 6 months where they check drawn blood to see how the bodies reaction is.
The last visit was in April and Peanuts had dropped to class V from VI and milk and egg was down to class III from IV. We were told they she things the next step by age 5 will be to have him drink/eat a small portion of acutal milk and eggs directly and this would continue for a few years with the hope of eventually him being almost allergy free from milk and eggs. Certainly enough so that he could eat ice cream and a birthday cake at a friends birthday party.
Now for peanuts it is longer process but she thinks that by age 6-7 (first grade) he might be able to tolerate eating 6-7 nuts without going into a reaction.. There have been studies done in this method at the Univ of Arkansas and others where over say a 5 yr period someone with a severe allergic reaction to peanuts can then eat a handful of peanuts without causing his body to go into a reaction. That would be huge for us... He will never be able to eat handful of peanuts....but our doctor thinks there is about an 80 pct chance that by 1st grade he could tolerate minute portions of actual peanut or accidental touching without any reaction.
This gives us hope. This doctor we work with is the daughter of the original founder and she has current studies in this treatment with doctors at Duke regarding peanut allergies.
Anyway want to throw out some hope for you.....we dont know exactly how his body will respond....but we feel so much better than doing nothing. Luckily its not too expensive....the medical visists are covered by BCBS but the costs of the drops are not...they run about 217.00 for two vials and each vial lasts 90 days.
Oh by the way...we asked our allergist about going to Disney World in Orlando and was told without a doubt that Disney World is likely the safest place for a vacation you can take your kid. If you contact the resort before arrival and tell them your kids allergies (peanuts being the most prevelent) they will treat you well. There is a special chef and special kitchen which are 100 pct peanut free and they will produce food for your kid. They handle other food allergies too. We were given assurances that going down there is a safe thing. I also have been told that too from parents with kids with peanut allergies that they treat the family very well.
We did ask our allergist about flying on a plane as our wife was worried about peanuts that are served. You can ask that peanuts or any nut not be served on the plane before hand if you contact the airline. We were worried about peanuts eaten on a previous flight...and any leftover residue. But our doctor said she would not be concerned for our son in terms of this as any amount would be so minute and diluted that it would not cause any problems (at least for us). For anyone who has had blood work done for food allergies...our son did have a measurement of 23 at age 2 1/2 for peanut reaction and his last visit it was 16 and our doctor considers 15 the cutoff between extremely severe and severe reaction. To compare allergy free is about 0.003 or so.... Now I havent a clue what the numbers given measure...but were just given this as a comparision.
Some of the reponses here are rather silly and rather rigid. What is more important?? One childs life or another child's snack??
If I thought my childs snack may take a toll on anothers health there is no way I would send it in with them. I have learned to choose my battles more wisely.
Last edited by mrstewart; 09-13-2008 at 02:34 PM..
but, but, wait!, can't the exact same thing be accomplished by establishing peanut free tables at school? Aren't you basically doing the same thing at the ball park that a you could do if there was a peanut free table at school? If the ball park doesn't need to go peanut free for your child to feel safe, why does the school need to do the same?
*sigh* again w/ the asinine comparisons. I'll go through one by one:
The point of these examples was to show that the school has their reasons for banning certain items from the school. Thank you for taking the time to thoroughly spell out those reasons for me.
But the school does have its reasons for banning peanut products, that reason being the school is RESPONSIBLE for the safety of ALL children.
You can complain all you want, but the simple fact of the matter is that the school is responsible for the safety of ALL the kids in the school, not all but ONE, or all but TWO, or in my case all but TWELVE!
You are really also arguing and blaming the wrong people for your inconvenience of having to send a snack other than peanuts. The parents of allergic children aren't telling you what to do, the school is! The schools have the responsibility to keep the children with severe food allergies safe, and they decide how best to do that. Some do that with peanut bans, others peanut free zones like peanut free classroom and peanut free tables in the lunch room. The school, I am sure, chooses based on what is BEST for their school.
Again, the school has their reasons for banning an item, whether that be banning backpacks so other kids don't trip and get hurt, or banning peanuts so other kids don't die. The SCHOOL decides how best to keep ALL the kids safe, including the children with allergies.
The point of these examples was to show that the school has their reasons for banning certain items from the school. Thank you for taking the time to thoroughly spell out those reasons for me.
But the school does have its reasons for banning peanut products, that reason being the school is RESPONSIBLE for the safety of ALL children.
You can complain all you want, but the simple fact of the matter is that the school is responsible for the safety of ALL the kids in the school, not all but ONE, or all but TWO, or in my case all but TWELVE!
You are really also arguing and blaming the wrong people for your inconvenience of having to send a snack other than peanuts. The parents of allergic children aren't telling you what to do, the school is! The schools have the responsibility to keep the children with severe food allergies safe, and they decide how best to do that. Some do that with peanut bans, others peanut free zones like peanut free classroom and peanut free tables in the lunch room. The school, I am sure, chooses based on what is BEST for their school.
Again, the school has their reasons for banning an item, whether that be banning backpacks so other kids don't trip and get hurt, or banning peanuts so other kids don't die. The SCHOOL decides how best to keep ALL the kids safe, including the children with allergies.
The school's reason for banning peanut butter is COST. Simple. The costs for establishing a separate accommodations for kids with peanut allergies would be too great. Therefore, they make a blanket "no peanuts in school" policy. Or, the costs for hiring enough supervision during lunch to be sure that the kids are not sharing food would be too much. If an alcohol wipe is enough to safeguard your child, then all children could be required to clean their hands with a wet wipe before leaving the lunchroom.
Like I said in a previous post, my son's first school tried to ban PB and there was an uproar.
You keep saying it is not a big deal for children to not bring peanuts for a "snack". I don't know any kids who are actually bringing peanuts for their "snack". They are bringing Peanut butter sandwiches for their "meal". One parent at the school said "My daughter has had a peanut butter sandwich for lunch every day for 5 years, what am I supposed to do now" Lets talk about people who don't live close to the grocery store. What is the shelf life of fresh deli meats? and what about the packaged ones that last longer, they are full of crap preservatives. And the recommendation for children is not to have tuna more than twice a month.
IF my son would be willing to eat peanut butter, THAT is what I would want to send him to school with. And yes, that Peanut butter sandwich would be critical to his health. He is a very unusual, picky eater. He eats very little protein, no eggs, no meat, no chicken. If he would eat peanut butter that does NOT mean he would eat sunbutter. Sunbutter is very similar BUT not the same. And no, I would not be able to give him the peanut butter at another time, because I couldn't swap the lunch for his breakfast (can't send him to school with cereal everyday for lunch) and no, I wouldn't be able to swap it with his dinner, because he eats only PASTA for dinner. Every night. And it has to be hot and fresh. So, no if he would eat PB for lunch, that is what it would have to be. And it would be a critical food source for him. I have been dreaming of my son eating PB & J for years.
People are not trying to be unaccommodating to children with allergies, but there has to be a middle ground.
A false sense of security is not security. And that is what you get in peanut free schools.
And you are acting like they are only banning peanuts and peanut butter. There are a million things that "may contain traces of peanut" so don't act like it's no big deal, people just have to make a different sandwich.
It doesn't seem like you appreciate the inconvenience it is to other parents. (and yes, it is an inconvenience to parents and other children alike, there is no denying it)
You might get more sympathy for the allergy kids by saying, "lets all brainstorm and work together to find a way that tommy x will not die today in school because he touches peter q's desk after he eats his sandwich" A little appreciation goes a long way.
And to imply that there is a little price difference between the sunbutter and PB is based in fantasy not fact. A jar of PB is 1$ and sunbutter is well over $4. If someone was on a budget with a pack of kids that would get very expensive.
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). again, kids have been eating PB&J sandwiches since the Medieval Ages, and kids are going to keep eating it, unless the entire world population is going to develop these super allergies. some families either can't or don't want to change this (I have another reason why people may be so against the ban that I'll go into below)
