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The collective "we" has the education system "we" want. We want schools to do all our dirty work. We want to complain 24/7 even when we have no idea what we are talking about. We want smart kids but want even more an allocation of funds that undermine smarts in favor of fluff. We want good teachers and would rather not bust strikes, when at times this is exactly what needs to be done to improve schools. We are unable to overcome political correctness and either suffer for it or end of exiting the system and incurring a double tax (first tax pays for the public schools, second are the private school fees). I could go on. Put it all together and you have what we see. Brilliance in spots. Solid schools everywhere, but a extremely large number of disasters. Given the funds spent on education, one could not do worse.
You point to an important factor that is commonly overlooked: the match between schools and the present/future economy.
Many elementary school teachers are saints and worth their weight in gold. Others plant seeds that undermine learning.
Elementary eachers must have competence in calculus. They must. A fifth grade teacher is already bound to have kids knowledgeable in simple algebra. In those cases, the teachers need to continue shining the light to where the kid can head. If they do not have the expertise, they should expect to get it. If not, let them go.
I think elementary schools with a single teacher for a cohort do have their place. There is more to those years than simply the acquisition of academic knowledge. But supplements of specialists makes a lot of sense...but more $$ to do so...
S>
In principle, I definitely agree -- I think that at least for those core subjects of English and math, students should not be taught by a generalist, but by someone who at least has a B.A. in the field for precisely the reason you mentioned: to shine a light where they're going.
That way, at the very least, we wouldn't have elementary school teachers telling students that "You can't subtract 7 from 5" or "There's no number smaller than zero," both of which I had to un-learn in seventh grade. You also would not have (as one of my friends did) a math teacher telling your child that "3x5" does not get you the same product as "5x3."
That way, at the very least, we wouldn't have elementary school teachers telling students that "You can't subtract 7 from 5" or "There's no number smaller than zero," both of which I had to un-learn in seventh grade. You also would not have (as one of my friends did) a math teacher telling your child that "3x5" does not get you the same product as "5x3."
Charles, you are scaring us and Halloween is still two months away. Any such teachers should be let go...for they are not teachers but expensive baby sitters.
I just graduated a few years ago. One of the huge problems is that our society doesn't value math and science. People see those who are good at it and look down on them a lot of the time. I do believe that this stigma is getting better, though. Also, when people aren't good at math or science they are told that it's fine. If you don't do well in English, you aren't told it's fine. People far too often assume that math is something that you either get or don't. Science goes along with that. We need people to value the subjects more than they currently do, but I'm really not sure how to change that.
Depends on where you live. Here in metro Denver, there are many scientists and engineers, and these subjects are highly valued.
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlefamily
That sentence sums it up!
My opinion of why we are falling behind has to do with what we ask of elementary public school teachers. Our education system was created as we were turning into an industrialized society. Our society is now very different, but our education system is not.
Elementary teachers are asked to proficiently teach all subjects to children. Unfortunately, the vast majority of those teachers are not particularly strong in either math nor science. From what I have experienced, most do not share a love of math/science. Children do learn from their teachers and unfortunately a teacher's dislike of math and/or science is learned by the students as well.
Why not have a "specialist" teaching math, who can share excitement and love of the subject just like we do for art, music or PE?
I agree! When my kids were in ele school, I noticed this. The science fair judging was abysmal. The teacher judges obviously didn't know what they were doing. My daughters and I discussed this issue many times. DD #2 went to a college with a large ele ed school and she said she noted this aversion to science/math among the ele ed majors. She once said she would like to be a science specialist in the ele schools, however she would have to create her own job in a recession, not too easy.
Yes, but I wanted to compare the demographics of the kids in the study by country.I don't think Canada will have as many kids whose first language isn't the language they are being taught in,but maybe I am wrong, but would be nice to know.
I'm not sure I'd make that assumption (anyone from Canada care to chime in?). Canada has, at least, two main languages. In the US we have one but spanish is quickly becomming our second language.
One could almost conclude that the teaching/learning protocol is only effective if it is particularly suited to the culture or learning environment it is being applied.
So, I think the questions are, why have we decided that our kids do not need as much physics, and why do we feel we have to keep motivating them toward science learning?
[quote=Katiana;10487678]Depends on where you live. Here in metro Denver, there are many scientists and engineers, and these subjects are highly valued.
quote]
Well, that's great for metro Denver. However, most people don't live in metro Denver. Maybe I'm jaded in this area because here in southern California they aren't highly valued subjects. I will say, though, that people I have met from all over the country share the same view.
Well, that's great for metro Denver. However, most people don't live in metro Denver. Maybe I'm jaded in this area because here in southern California they aren't highly valued subjects. I will say, though, that people I have met from all over the country share the same view.
Well, that's where I live and that's what my experience was when my kids were in the public schools.
I'm not sure I'd make that assumption (anyone from Canada care to chime in?). Canada has, at least, two main languages. In the US we have one but spanish is quickly becomming our second language.
Yes Canada has 2 main languages, but the french canadian kids will be taught in their first language,which is French.
Now what percentage of Spanish speaking kids in the US will be taught in Spanish?
I was trying to look at the demographica data so that I didn't have to make assumptions, which is why I said "I would think"
Any findings from research are only as good as the quality of that research.
To me it's just a load of numbers.Need to use a bit of savvy to make a critical judgement of it. In a study like this it is imperative to know how they controlled for bias and what the sampling strategy was (amongst other things)
I'm not sure I'd make that assumption (anyone from Canada care to chime in?). Canada has, at least, two main languages. In the US we have one but spanish is quickly becomming our second language.
Hold on a sec. According to the 2000 Census, only three states out of 50+ Washington DC had more than 20% who spoke Spanish at home and only 10 states with more than 10% speaking Spanish at home.
Also, only 9 states had Hispanic/Latin American populations comprising 15% or more of the state population.
In fact, for 32/51 states & DC, Home speakers of Spanish was <6%!! And
By these statistical measures, it is clear that the "Hispanic" scare is so ridiculously blown out of proportion as far as being a truly nationwide "crisis." The numbers are highly concentrated.
As to why the invective? The answer is simple. What are the states that show up on both lists of usual suspects?
California
Texas
Florida
New York
New Jersey
Illinois
Nevada
New Mexico
Arizona
So in these states. the power of media is huge (save New Mexico). These are also populous and popular states in our imagination...well, maybe not NJ! Just kidding...
But the overweight of national media on SF, LA, NY, Miami & Chicago is blowing things way, way out of proportion and into the hands of hate groups.
These are obviously big and important states as to electoral votes. However, the Hispanic presence in the vast majority of states is quite modest.
Finally, given that English is the language of our laws and that 87.2% of American homes speak English at home (12.8% is Spanish & hundreds of others), it is simply not the cae that there is any reason whatsoever to enshrine Spanish into American public policies. Instead, as I have argued on this thread, the Speaking of Spanish should remain an economic decision, one that has great validity.
S.
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Just kidding...
