U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
Old 03-27-2010, 12:49 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
437 posts, read 596,768 times
Reputation: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
In other words, all kids with so called asperger's deserve private secretaries to follow them around so they can be in honors classes, only to leave the normal kids to struggle because they don't get the same help? Give me a break.

For one thing, I believe they are using the 'autism spectrum' as they did ADD, then ADHD, then bi-polar, etc.. There has been, for a number of years, inflictions that scores of kids suddenly have to make them different than the masses. Tens of thousands of mothers get on the bandwagon of whichever new affliction arises, and it's getting worse. Soon there will be a label for the remainder of the most normal kids that will put them in a pigeon hole.

IMO, it has gotten to be way out of hand.

I resent the amount of money poured into spec ed in our public schools. I believe parents should foot the bill for their demands to privatize their child's education in a public school. It seems unconstitutional that we are paying for private educations for spec ed kids in our public schools.

As long as that's happening, I will not vote yes on a school budget or taxes.
Don't you mean afflictions, and not inflictions?

It is not "so called Asperger's". It is in fact Asperger's Syndrome. It is a PDD and it is on the Autism Spectrum, not "autism spectrum" as you so called it. Just because your mind doesn't think these disorders exist (thus your quotations around them), doesn't mean they really don't exist.

A child who is Bi-Polar is not eligible for Special Ed services. A child with Bi-Polar is typically not identified as being emotionally disturbed, and Bi-Polar does not equal schizophrenia (the only mental illness eligible).

Special education is not privatized. It is individualized. That's why they have what is called an INDIVIDUALIZED EDUCATION PROGRAM (IEP), not a privatized education program. Each SpEd student is guaranteed to receive a Free and Appropriate Public Education (just like you and everyone else here was entitled to a public school education). The IEP committee determines what is appropriate for that child. Whether it be speech therapy, occupational therapy, physical therapy, learning to count to 20 in a year, learning to read, helping them with sensory processing, helping them tolerate walking with a walker for more than 5 minutes a day, social work services..... get my drift?

There are certain instances in which a student is place in a regular public school because the parents want them to grow up as "normal as possible". If this means a blind student needs to have an one-on-one assistant with them to take notes and help them get from one place to another, so be it. It is what is guaranteed to them in the IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act). A child who is "normal", who can take their own notes, and organize them, and do everything for themselves is probably not a Special Ed student. They don't need a one-on-one to help them because they were fortunate enough to not be born with a disability. If the "normal" kids are going to allow themselves to struggle because they're not getting personal help even though they don't need it, they're pathetic.

Now if you have a problem with this "entitlement law" (IDEA), take it up with the government. Go to D.C. and let them know how you feel. Let them know how you think disabled students should be at the mercy of their parents being rich enough to educate them properly.

At some point, you'll see the government doesn't have it's head that far up it's ***.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-27-2010, 07:56 AM
 
2,605 posts, read 2,565,215 times
Reputation: 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedely View Post

Special education is not privatized. It is individualized.
Same thing. Get my drift?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-27-2010, 12:57 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
437 posts, read 596,768 times
Reputation: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
Same thing. Get my drift?

It is not the same thing. The government oversees special education. You could say the government manages special education and all related services. Even a student in a private special education school will have it's education paid for with public funds, and the government still "manages" that students education. UNLESS the parents have done something unreasonable, and thus lose eligibility for payment/reimbursement of that particular private school, hospital facility, etc. The private sector does not have anything to do with special education. The state and federal government are responsible for funding and overseeing it. Not big businesses. Also, the individualized education of a child is geared towards their individuals needs. Some children need speech therapy, some do not. Some need to be potty trained, others need help transitioning to other areas of the school without having a meltdown. Others may need more help with social skills, and some will need help with their fine motor skills, and still others may need lots of extra help learning to read. This does not equal privatized education.

Still, if you feel it is privatized and feel disabled students shouldn't be allowed to be educated in a public school unless their parents have enough $$$$$ to pay for it (like some of the other critically thinking impaired Right), take it up with the powers that be. But first, you'd be wise to actually read up on WHY the IDEA was created in the first place!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-27-2010, 03:37 PM
 
2,605 posts, read 2,565,215 times
Reputation: 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyyfanatic85 View Post
The major push in K-12 education today is inclusion, which means including special education students in regular classes. To do this, millions of dollars are being spent to educate regular ed teachers on how to incorporate these students.

Meanwhile, many workshops, seminars, and conferences about for teachers attempting to become more proficient in special education. Conversely, there are an extremely limited number of workshops/conferences for meeting the needs of gifted students.

What gives? It's highly plausible to say that the gifted students will be entrepreneurs, college-bound, and innovative makers of new technology that will drive our economy, not the other way around. Is too much focus being given to the lower-end group?
Yes. And the upper end doesn't deserve any more than the middle group either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-27-2010, 03:42 PM
 
83 posts, read 131,939 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
If parents want individualized educations for their spec ed kids, or any other kids, they should either homeschool or send their kids to private schools.
You clearly do NOT understand why the IDEA was created. Every special ed kid is different, which is why an IEP is written for them for the special ed teacher to follow. You can't treat all special ed students the same like a class of regular students. What don't you get?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-27-2010, 03:44 PM
 
83 posts, read 131,939 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
Yes. And the upper end doesn't deserve any more than the middle group either.
Yes, the gifted students deserve extra attention. Reason: Curriculum is dumbed down to the average student's abilities.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-27-2010, 04:19 PM
 
2,870 posts, read 966,518 times
Reputation: 896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macintosh Sauce View Post
Yes, the gifted students deserve extra attention. Reason: Curriculum is dumbed down to the average student's abilities.
Well perhaps they should be homeschooled or sent to private schools (sarcasm in use.)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-27-2010, 06:11 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,546 posts, read 8,506,710 times
Reputation: 9121
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
Ok, look at it like this: Say you have 20 spec ed kids in a school. Say you have an equal amount of low income, normal kids who are struggling to keep up.

The school spends tens of thousands on babysitting, essentially, of the spec ed kids while those low income, struggling, normal kids continue to struggle and nothing beyond the everyday classroom is offered to them.

Some of those same spec ed kids don't even recognize they are in a school or what they are there for, and none of them will be expected to go to college or maintain a supporting income in the future. The normal kids are still struggling, knowing what they are there for and thinking all they will have when they get out of school is a job sweeping floors or some other menial task. No college in their future since they have been struggling through and their families won't be able to afford to send them.

As adults, those spec ed people get shuffled from a care facility to group home or family home without a care. Those normal kids are living in trailer parks and their kids go barefoot because their education wasn't sufficient to bring them to a higher level. They end up on welfare and the state takes over where a decent job might have, had they had the same 'extra' benefits those spec ed kids had back in school.

So in the end, at least tens of thousands of dollars is spent on 'educating' uneducable kids while others suffer, and as a result ALL of them end up being supported by the state.

Makes no sense at all.
You are making the erroneous assumption that all sped kids have mental retardation. This is so far from the truth that I know you don't know what you're talking about. Only 10% of sped kids have retardation, and the majority of those kids are educable and employable. My school has a student population of 2000, and of all of those students, maybe 10 are low enough that they'll have to live with mom and dad or in a shelter workshop for the rest of their lives. All of those 10 are together for most of the day in a life skills class or taken out to work at basic jobs. So, that leaves 90% of sped kids with average or higher IQ, who will be able to perform their school work with just a little extra help.

Then, of those 90%, most of them are in the regular classroom with a regular teacher and a co-teacher. The CT is expected to help all of the kids who are struggling, not just those with an IEP, though the IEP students get first priority, and generally the only accoms and mods that even kids with IEPs get is extended testing time and maybe to use their notes on a test. Most of those kids will be going to college if their folks can afford it, just like the regular students, though their grades may not be as high, so fewer of them are eligible for scholarships, though there are some especially for LD kids. Their ACT and SAT scores will probably not be as high, even if gifted and accoms and mods are made, b/c many of them have major test anxiety. BTW, the only accom I've seen made with the ACT was extended testing time--I think they got 2 extra hours and they needed all of it. The day I moderated, there were around 200 students taking it, and only 2 signed up for extended time.

To say that they are all ineducable and won't be expected to have jobs shows just how much you don't know about sped. The whole point is to get them ready for the world of work so we won't have to support them for the rest of their lives. In no way do I believe that the program is perfect--too much money spent in some cases and not enough in most, but to think that it should be ditched is madness. The more we standardize education, the more students will be left behind and that's the real problem. I forget who said it a few pages back, but we should be teaching to their strengths and not their weaknesses, but the schools are not equipped to do that as things stand right now.

Oh yes, and I guarantee that every student I work with, down to the very lowest IQ, has a very firm understanding that they are in school. (This was said in a quite acid tone.)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-27-2010, 06:14 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,546 posts, read 8,506,710 times
Reputation: 9121
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
Another brilliant post...bravo! It is delightful to read the thoughts of a well-adjusted open mind. You are a diamond.
Thank you--that was sweet.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-27-2010, 07:19 PM
 
1,428 posts, read 1,890,800 times
Reputation: 1434
Quote:
Originally Posted by photobuff42 View Post
I think part of the answer to this would be shifting our focus to more student centered education. I wish students worked to true skill mastery and were placed on a time table based on mastery of core skills, not concepts. Students wouldn't graduate at the end of so many semesters or credits earned, but when they showed mastery of core skills that everyone should know. The accountability would be more student centered than it currently is now.
I would like that. I would like it if students were free to learn at a pace appropriate to them. It would be a scheduling nightmare, but not necessarily and insoluble one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top