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People have a right to work in their chosen field without being forced to violate their conscience. Sometimes we even allow people to opt out of military service if their religion frowns on war.
See how that works?
We actually give rights to minority groups.
...just not any minority groups liberals care about.
Religion is a choice. Minority groups that we give rights to are generally not given a choice in their minority. Homosexuality aside, which minority group do you think was given a choice in their minority?
The United States is forbidden by law in respecting any establishment of religion. Thus, your religion is a non issue.
I am Catholic and I support this. The Catholic higher ups are still living in the 19th century, its time to join the 21st century. By the way, many Catholics have sex outside of marriage and I know of many Catholic women who use birth control, so I am sure they are please with this.
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Last edited by Ibginnie; 02-05-2012 at 04:39 PM..
Reason: discuss TOPICS not other posters
And this is a complicated matter. As you have said.
Should a private institution be forced to spend money on things that they don't want to spend money on? In this case the catholic church on insurance that provides a contraception option.
Or, should the federal government be allowed to mandate that every business in the country must provide services, regardless of their opposition to them?
Most Americans think that mandated handicapped parking, mandated handicapped bathrooms, and discrimination based on skin color should be mandated for every business in the country.
But you can't have it that way, and then say that the catholic churches public facilities should be exempt because of their religious views.
I think this is where the OP is confused.
I'm a conservative, to the point of being a libertarian on many issues. I personally don't feel that private business and private land owners should be mandated by the federal government to have to do something they don't want to do. After all, its their property.
But, as I said, most Americans disagree with my position. I try and reason with people, I vote to change the laws as I see fit.
But it is not a war on religion.
That's a better way to put it, but I still don't think it is right. I don't care what background people come from or their political leanings, unless it involves derangement, I care about what the support for their argument is first.
No one wants to be mandated what to do, but it is the responsible option. Businesses didn't want any responsibility mandated...pollution, worker safety, food safety, water safety, and the list goes on. It doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done. That is why I dislike Libertarianism, it is personal freedom without personal or group responsibility. All other employers must comply with the regulations, they must as well even if simply due to the requirement that laws must apply equally, let alone service to those who don't hold the same moral code.
They are given the right to do business here, with the stipulation that it must be done responsibly within the legal framework.
I am Catholic and I support this. The Catholic higher ups are still living in the 19th century, its time to join the 21st century. By the way, many Catholics have sex outside of marriage and I know of many Catholic women who use birth control, so I am sure they are please with this.
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To be fair, my significant other is a catholic also. When I alerted her to Newts argument her words were,
"Doesn't he know that most of the priests in the United States will tell people to use birth control? Otherwise no one would come to their services."
This is a fake debate, made by people who want to make the President appear non christian. It has nothing to do with religion, these are public institutions, and Americans as a whole have said that the federal government should have the right to dictate things to public institutions, and private.
Last edited by Ibginnie; 02-05-2012 at 04:40 PM..
Reason: edited quoted post
That's a better way to put it, but I still don't think it is right. I don't care what background people come from or their political leanings, unless it involves derangement, I care about what the support for their argument is first.
No one wants to be mandated what to do, but it is the responsible option. Businesses didn't want any responsibility mandated...pollution, worker safety, food safety, water safety, and the list goes on. It doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done. That is why I dislike Libertarianism, it is personal freedom without personal or group responsibility. All other employers must comply with the regulations, they must as well even if simply due to the requirement that laws must apply equally, let alone service to those who don't hold the same moral code.
They are given the right to do business here, with the stipulation that it must be done responsibly within the legal framework.
And on this we can have a logical debate. I'd be happy to debate it with you in another thread (this one would be off topic).
The OP is trying to say that the President has declared a holy war against religion. And the fact remains, thats just wrong.
People have a right to work in their chosen field without being forced to violate their conscience. Sometimes we even allow people to opt out of military service if their religion frowns on war.
See how that works?
We actually give rights to minority groups.
...just not any minority groups liberals care about.
Isn't the military service optional in the US? So someone whose religion is against war (except for Jainism I don't know of any religion where such a position has prevented war of one kind or another) should not enter the military in the first place.
Anyway, the president has to do what he thinks is right, not what secures him votes...
CATHOLIC hospitals and schools. See, I know you agree with obama on just about everything, but HE doesn't get to dictate to religious entities......that happens to be in our founding documents, something obama and his supporters could care less about.
He just recently got smacked down by SCOTUS.....they will do the same here.
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Furthermore, let's say I was a woman who worked as a nurse for a Catholic Hospital in New York. I'm not Catholic, but I do work at a Catholic hospital because of a number of factors (maybe pay, expertise, convenient locale, etc...) and, yet, my health insurance through the hospital won't cover birth control because of some stupid ancient mythological belief that my employer has?
That's ridiculous and it forces me to recognize my employer's belief as one that can control my well-being and my health. I refuse to think that some quacky, stupid religious belief is going to dictate how and what I am insured for.
Although an entity like a hospital may be run by a religious organization, it requires enough specialties (doctors, nurses, etc...) that they may have to draw from a pool of people from outside their faith. Thus, it is obvious that people working at these institutions may not all be of the same faith but that gives the employer no right to determine, by their faith, what they will or won't cover in regards to my personal health.
Make no mistake... There were exceptions to the rule. Those who work as or directly for clergy members or with direct involvement with the church (say I'm an accountant cooking the books for my local fundamentalist preacher) may not have their birth control covered.
So, really, what this does is limit the power of a religious organization to discriminate against employees of a certain operation who don't believe in the same hocus-pocus nonsense as their employer. I don't go to my office expecting my CEO to send me his thoughts or religious beliefs and there's no reason a person's life should be directly influenced by his or her employer's religious beliefs.
To be fair, my significant other is a catholic also. When I alerted her to Newts argument her words were,
"Doesn't he know that most of the priests in the United States will tell people to use birth control? Otherwise no one would come to their services."
This is a fake debate, made by people who want to make the President appear non christian. It has nothing to do with religion, these are public institutions, and Americans as a whole have said that the federal government should have the right to dictate things to public institutions, and private.
Exactly. I live and grew up in a heavily Italian-Catholic area. No one cares about this issue, the vast majority strongly disagree with the church's position on birth control. Fact of the matter is the only ones who would vote on this issue, are already voting Republican on abortion and gays.
CATHOLIC hospitals and schools. See, I know you agree with obama on just about everything, but HE doesn't get to dictate to religious entities......that happens to be in our founding documents, something obama and his supporters could care less about.
He just recently got smacked down by SCOTUS.....they will do the same here.
This won't cost Obama any votes because these people wouldn't have voted for him in the first place. But birth control is pretty common among Catholics. We grew up very poor and being Catholic my mom was not on any birth control. So after 5 kids that my parents couldn't afford our priest begged her to take birth control. When you can't afford to take care of all your kids why keep having them. So she went on the pill after that talk with priest.
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So someone whose religion is against war (except for Jainism I don't know of any religion where such a position has prevented war of one kind or another) should not enter the military in the first place.
