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Old 10-01-2012, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,987,397 times
Reputation: 5661

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
You are right. This election is about the ECONOMY and the economy is terrible. Obama has policies which directly oppose business development, therefore this is expected.

Perhaps one could try-

eliminating Obamacare
cutting corporate taxes- the highest in the world
reducing EPA regulations
stopping the war on coal
allowing oils shale development and offshore drilling
muzzling the trial lawyer's association
corporate consumption tax

Just a few suggestions, given that Obama has failued miserably using the opposite approach. But then again, libs like impoverishing the nation, as it creates more democrats.
Why would one want to eliminate Obamacare, which reduces government costs and provides HC to many?
Statutory Corporate taxes might be the highest in the world but EFFECTIVE Corporate taxes are at a 60 year low. The fact that corporations pay income taxes isn't a drag on the economy.
Why would one want to reduce EPA regulations that have been so effective at keeping the air, water and land clean? Yes, it may be a cost to corporations but it's a reasonable cost and we have had these regulations since 1972, with booming economies after.
There is no "war on coal." Yet coal needs to meet clean air standards so we breathe better. I don't see why conservatives want to reduce the costs to utilities and shift that cost to everyone else in terms of new cancers and health costs.
We already have oils shale development and offshore drilling. In fact, it's at a all time high.
The trial lawyer's association is no drag on the economy and has been around in good times as well.
What about a corporate consumption tax?

Last edited by MTAtech; 10-01-2012 at 09:48 AM..
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:31 AM
 
16,579 posts, read 20,760,311 times
Reputation: 26861
Quote:
Originally Posted by smittyjohnny38 View Post
So when Obama is re-elected and I fully expect him to win what conclusions can we draw?


1. He has increased the welfare state and dependency on the government far more than any other President in recent times. If you didnt work and he gave you free things wouldnt you vote for him? Woud you care what the unemployment rate was?

2. The population is dumber. The hero worship on this guy is like nothing Ive ever seen before. The unemployment rate is higher than when he took office. Sad...
Assuming your "fact" is true, a third possibility is that Americans realize that no president could have fixed the economy in 4 years but appreciate what Obama has done and want to give him a chance to finish the job. That's why I'm voting for him. Again.
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,987,397 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by smittyjohnny38
So when Obama is re-elected and I fully expect him to win what conclusions can we draw?


1. He has increased the welfare state and dependency on the government far more than any other President in recent times. If you didnt work and he gave you free things wouldnt you vote for him? Woud you care what the unemployment rate was?

2. The population is dumber. The hero worship on this guy is like nothing Ive ever seen before. The unemployment rate is higher than when he took office. Sad...
Your claim of intellectual superiority for those that agree with your view, does not go unnoticed. What makes you think that because someone disagrees with your electoral choice they are dumb?

There are many reasons why someone evaluating both candidates would choose Obama.

It also doesn't go unnoticed your meme that "Obama has increased the welfare state and dependency on the government far more than any other President in recent times." What's your evidence?

Moreover, perhaps what is alarming to many voters is the fear that right-wingers believe that this election is a referendum on the New Deal and the Great Society, on Social Security, Medicare and, Obamacare.

I believe most voters reject the idea that if you use Medicare and are on Social Security, you are dependent upon the government. I further believe most voters reject the idea that if someone loses their job and gets unemployment insurance, has to apply for Food Stamps or Medicaid, they are lazy suckers of the government teat, as right-wingers believe.

They fear that if they vote for Romney and Ryan, who want to replace Medicare with Vouchercare, who denounce Social Security, who dismiss those who take advantage of social insurance programs as people unwilling to take responsibility for their lives, they are voting for people who do not represent their best interests.

I personally believe that people who vote against the needs of the ordinary person is dumb.
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:38 PM
 
30,173 posts, read 18,766,595 times
Reputation: 21018
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Why would one want to eliminate Obamacare, which reduces government costs and provides HC to many?
Statutory Corporate taxes might be the highest in the world but EFFECTIVE Corporate taxes are at a 60 year low. The fact that corporations pay income taxes isn't a drag on the economy.
Why would one want to reduce EPA regulations that have been so effective at keeping the air, water and land clean? Yes, it may be a cost to corporations but it's a reasonable cost and we have had these regulations since 1972, with booming economies after.
There is no "war on coal." Yet coal needs to meet clean air standards so we breathe better. I don't see why conservatives want to reduce the costs to utilities and shift that cost to everyone else in terms of new cancers and health costs.
We already have oils shale development and offshore drilling. In fact, it's at a all time high.
The trial lawyer's association is no drag on the economy and has been around in good times as well.
What about a corporate consumption tax?

1. Obamacare increases healthcare costs
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybens...ts_study_shows
2. Obamacare adds $1.8 trillion to the national debt
http://news.yahoo.com/obamacare-won-...231800123.html
3. Obamacare robs $750 billion from medicare, reducing medicare benefits and access
http://blog.heritage.org/2012/08/01/...o-fund-itself/
4. The US tax rate is the highest in the world, even with deductions, it is in the top 20%
http://money.cnn.com/2012/03/27/pf/t...axes/index.htm
5. The EPA was helpful 30 years ago- now they are going too far
6. There is a war on coal- "Electricity prices will necessarily skyrocket"
7. There are restrictions on offshore drilling, ANWAR and oil shale
8. The trial lawyer's association adds BILLIONS of dollars to the cost of doing business in the US
9. A corporate consumption tax would promote exporters and punish importers (see Germany)
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,987,397 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
1. Obamacare increases healthcare costs
Surprise: Obamacare Increases Overall Health Costs by Nearly $500 Billion - Guy Benson
2. Obamacare adds $1.8 trillion to the national debt
3. Obamacare robs $750 billion from medicare, reducing medicare benefits and access
4. The US tax rate is the highest in the world, even with deductions, it is in the top 20%
5. The EPA was helpful 30 years ago- now they are going too far
6. There is a war on coal- "Electricity prices will necessarily skyrocket"
7. There are restrictions on offshore drilling, ANWAR and oil shale
8. The trial lawyer's association adds BILLIONS of dollars to the cost of doing business in the US
9. A corporate consumption tax would promote exporters and punish importers (see Germany)
Do you have that on an "F" key? You repeated that so many times, even when countered. I think I just did it today, here: Fact.. No President has ever been re-elected with unemployment rate above 7.5%

Oh, and Obamacare does not increase health care costs by $500b:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...PSES_blog.html

Your post is just a list of false talking points. We already know Obamacare doesn't rob Medicare. Stop posting known lies.

Besides, don't you know how to debate? 90% of your posts are laundry lists.
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:48 PM
 
30,173 posts, read 18,766,595 times
Reputation: 21018
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Do you have that on an "F" key? You repeated that so many times, even when countered. I think I just did it today, here: Fact.. No President has ever been re-elected with unemployment rate above 7.5%

Oh, and Obamacare does not increase health care costs by $500b:
CBO: Health reform to cut deficit by $50 billion more than we thought - The Washington Post

Your post is just a list of false talking points. We already know Obamacare doesn't rob Medicare. Stop posting known lies.

Besides, don't you know how to debate? 90% of your posts are laundry lists.

You are right-

Obamacare increases the debt by $1.76 trillion.

Obamacare does not rob $750 billion from medicare? Sure. Perhaps you could just "give it back" to medicare and see how the books look for Obamacare. When the 30% cut in reimbursement to physicians goes through as of Jan1st, who is going to see all those Medicare patients? Also, given that Obamacare is medicaid, who will see them?

MTA- You just ignore all the facts because they refute your outrageous false contentions. I would expect nothing else from a paid Obama operative

Here is what the CBO says about Obamacare NOW!
http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypip...t-isnt-pretty/
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:42 PM
 
1,291 posts, read 2,900,821 times
Reputation: 1264
Barry is a pos that should be hung for treason.

F anybody that votes for this bastard!
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:45 PM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
7,923 posts, read 8,862,937 times
Reputation: 2059
The context matters here. No president since FDR has won with a high unemployment rate because no president since FDR has had to govern at a time of a global economic crisis like the Great Depression or the Great Recession. The U.S. has seen plenty of downturns over the last eight decades, but financial collapses are fairly rare, produce far more severe conditions, and take much longer to recover from.
FDR................ 1936: Franklin Roosevelt got reelected with an unemployment rate of 17%, and he won 48 states?
Looks like it's going to be Deja VU.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:20 PM
 
30,173 posts, read 18,766,595 times
Reputation: 21018
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeoro View Post
The context matters here. No president since FDR has won with a high unemployment rate because no president since FDR has had to govern at a time of a global economic crisis like the Great Depression or the Great Recession. The U.S. has seen plenty of downturns over the last eight decades, but financial collapses are fairly rare, produce far more severe conditions, and take much longer to recover from.
FDR................ 1936: Franklin Roosevelt got reelected with an unemployment rate of 17%, and he won 48 states?
Looks like it's going to be Deja VU.

Keep in mind that "deja vu" is due to increased activity in the parietal association cortices and can be associated with petit-mal seizures. I would not be surprised if libs experienced "deja vu" or "ramas vu" (which accounts for thier belief that Obama is larger than life)- it is simply aberrant neocortical activity. I, for one, do not suffer from such maladies.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:24 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,348 posts, read 45,091,355 times
Reputation: 13809
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
When the 30% cut in reimbursement to physicians goes through as of Jan 1st, who is going to see all those Medicare patients? Also, given that Obamacare is medicaid, who will see them?
I would like to see a liberal answer that question. Medicare and Medicaid patients are screwed. More bad news for Medicare patients... don't dare relapse or have complications from an illness or surgery...
Medicare Fines Over Hospitals' Readmitted Patients - ABC News

Is that what you wanted liberals? Rationed and restricted care for Medicare and Medicaid patients?

Obamacare HAS to go. Repeal it!
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