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Old 02-02-2008, 04:01 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
14,317 posts, read 22,388,935 times
Reputation: 18436

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
I'm re-watching last nights debate, and Hillary states, and I will quote.

"I have designed a plan, that #1, If you have health insurance, and your happy with it, nothing changes, its because we want to maximize choice for people, so if you are satisfied, your not one of the people who necessarily, at this time, take advantage of what I'm offering, but if you are un-insured, or under insured, we will open the congressional health plan to you."

I'm scratching my head, AT THIS TIME? Does this mean that #2 means that you WILL NOT have a choice?

She keeps talking about how she wants to make it affordable to all, I thought this was a NATIONAL health care, meaning the government paid for it using the, $55,000,000,000 in increased taxes on the rich, and $55,000,000,000 in cost savings, through modernization and computerization, "electronic medical records". (which she stated, during the debate).

One sentence, its affordable by all, next sentence, the government will pay for it, by taxing the rich, another setence, the government will provide tax credits for people to buy into this "universal" health care.

Her plan just does not add up, what do you do if someone cant "afford" to buy healthcare through her plan? Its MANDATED by law, under her plan.

What if I dont WANT healthcare (which I dont)? Are they going to throw me into jail?

People fight every day against a national drivers license, why are people ok with a national medical records database controlled by the government?
More smoke and mirrors by this flake. Any serious plan for universal heathcare that is developed by the President of the US, is going to have to be done by the person who is in that office, AFTER they are in office and privy to all the information, resources, limitations, and increased visibility that only comes AFTER getting in office. She may get in office then suddenly realize that other problems take precedence. She may get in office and after she builds her cabinet and advisors, they may decide to recommend a universal healthcare plan that is vastly different than what she proposed in the campaign and far inferior.

Hillary is throwing out sound bites, in a desperate attempt to appear like a problem solver. Her goal is to try to sucker Obama to do the same, where he comes up with a different plan so that others have more information they can use to criticize him. Hillary no doubt is incorporating slick Willy campaign tactics.

How can she, or any candidate, come up with a specific plan to do anything without first getting all the information necessary to make an informed determination, information that can ONLY come after being elected? Hillary is presenting a specific plan with partial information. Maybe that's why it's partially disclosed.
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Old 02-02-2008, 05:50 AM
 
Location: Little Pond Farm
559 posts, read 1,356,552 times
Reputation: 507
I keep asking and never get a valid response please tell me one single thing Hillary did Accomplish? During the debates she claimed to be working on health care for years, OK 8 years later we still have the same health care system. Illegal Immigration, another issue she's been working on for years and while she's working, hundreds of thousands more illegals have entered the country. In the case of Mexico, they are invading this country. What did she accomplish in her years working in the immigration issue. Her battle cry of America is ready for change, so then why would we vote in the same old same old and have two families control the USA for any additional years.

I certainly hope women don't vote for this shrill just because she's a women.
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Old 02-02-2008, 06:40 AM
 
1,126 posts, read 2,693,161 times
Reputation: 572
some people here show their anger about paying for "others'" health (come on, be sincere and say "******s, spics and the lazy", that is what you mean) but apparently is ok to increase the military budget with taxpayers' money to fuel wars based upon lies and make the oil corporations incredibly wealthy. Ok, this is not the best answer, but the level of greed and lack of solidarity some reveal is just plain sickening.
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Old 02-02-2008, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,266,002 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by vickilynn View Post
They'll be automatically enrolled in an insurance plan that they will pay for?
Substitute the phrase automatically enrolled with FORCED - even if you don't want it!
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Old 02-02-2008, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,266,002 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Yeap.
Health coverage is not a luxury. It is a necessity. The only problem is, nobody knows WHEN they will "need" it.
Some 10 million Americans have, for whatever reason, and although they can afford it, have VOLUNTARILY chosen NOT to have health insurance. The have made a CHOICE not to have health insurance.

Now, "you" want to FORCE them to have health insurance?

Why?
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Old 02-02-2008, 08:35 AM
 
4,183 posts, read 6,524,933 times
Reputation: 1734
Obama's health plan makes more sense because it leaves the element of choice intact. Nobody should be forced to have insurance. Children should be the exception since they obviously don't have the competency to make informed consent. I would also include all demented, mentally retarded people who otherwise would not be able to make rational decisions for themselves. But for everyone else, health insurance should be voluntary, not mandated. The key thing is affordability. If insurance is affordable, rational people are expected to buy it. If they choose not to, then they should pay their own way. This is what makes Obama's plan more workable and attractive to Republicans like me who believe in market solutions to the health care problem.
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Old 02-02-2008, 09:01 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,118,301 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Yeap. And guess what? Since in even private plans, the larger the group, the lower premiums tend to be, it probably won't be very expensive.

Health coverage is not a luxury. It is a necessity. The only problem is, nobody knows WHEN they will "need" it.

The country is stuck in a precarious position: 1) continue to pay the costs of the uninsured, or 2) bring the uninsured into the fold.
And what happens when THEY STOP PAYING? If people do not want to pay for it, they wont..
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Old 02-02-2008, 09:09 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,118,301 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by casper324 View Post
I keep asking and never get a valid response please tell me one single thing Hillary did Accomplish? During the debates she claimed to be working on health care for years, OK 8 years later we still have the same health care system. Illegal Immigration, another issue she's been working on for years and while she's working, hundreds of thousands more illegals have entered the country. In the case of Mexico, they are invading this country. What did she accomplish in her years working in the immigration issue. Her battle cry of America is ready for change, so then why would we vote in the same old same old and have two families control the USA for any additional years.

I certainly hope women don't vote for this shrill just because she's a women.
I find it funny that everything that Hillary did work on, has gotten worse. She claimes she's worked on healthcare issues for 16 years.. Then I heard her claim that she's worked to lower the price of gas.

Last I checked, both of these prices not only have increased but increased substantially.

GREAT JOB HILLARY, GLAD TO SEE ALL OF YOUR ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN ACTION!
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Old 02-02-2008, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Washington state
7,211 posts, read 9,432,712 times
Reputation: 1895
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
I find it funny that everything that Hillary did work on, has gotten worse. She claimes she's worked on healthcare issues for 16 years.. Then I heard her claim that she's worked to lower the price of gas.

Last I checked, both of these prices not only have increased but increased substantially.

GREAT JOB HILLARY, GLAD TO SEE ALL OF YOUR ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN ACTION!
Yeah, well the national debt is now over 9 trillion thanks almost exclusively to the party of fiscal irresponsibility, the Republicans. So, before you start attacking Hilliary, get your own house in order first.
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Old 02-02-2008, 09:15 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,118,301 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Upton View Post
Yeah, well the national debt is now over 9 trillion thanks almost exclusively to the party of fiscal irresponsibility, the Republicans.
Last time I checked, the Democrats are the one controlling spending.. Try again to spin it however you want, but Congress is controlled by the Democrats, and the current spending bills offers no decreases in spending.
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