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Not sure who here can speak for "most Americans" but I don't think I've seen "federal tyranny" high on most lists except those of the insurgent militia groups.
The last thing I want is to go back to whatever CAUSED the likes of the Depression and/or Great Recession. Plenty other things low on my list of wants as well, but just getting onto a stable economic footing that suits most Americans rather than the most wealthy will suit me just fine!
You and others like you have this vague desire for 'equal footing' etc... But the practical reality is that the emotional force of your position will find it impossible to limit itself. For people like you and other Bernie supporters there will never be enough federal regulation and interference in private markets. There will never be a federal agency or spending program that is 'big enough'. EVERYTHING will, by definition, always be 'underfunded'. The very concept of 'federal tyranny' totally escapes most Bernie supporters.
Bernie Sanders and his supporters, no matter how well intentioned, are dangerous to the liberty of those around them. No thanks. We can fix our problems without Bernie's "revolution".
You and others like you have this vague desire for 'equal footing' etc... But the practical reality is that the emotional force of your position will find it impossible to limit itself. For people like you and other Bernie supporters there will never be enough federal regulation and interference in private markets. There will never be a federal agency or spending program that is 'big enough'. EVERYTHING will, by definition, always be 'underfunded'. The very concept of 'federal tyranny' totally escapes most Bernie supporters.
Bernie Sanders and his supporters, no matter how well intentioned, are dangerous to the liberty of those around them. No thanks. We can fix our problems without Bernie's "revolution".
It is always very frustrating to see how people will misrepresent the thoughts and words of others, but here we go again...
I didn't write "equal footing."
This compulsion on the part of conservatives to take everything to extreme is in large part why we can't find more moderate ground on which we are far more likely to agree.
For example, it is not a progressive goal that everyone "be equal" as conservatives always love to suggest, ridiculous though this always sounds no matter who you are. The goal is simply to provide better access to the building blocks of opportunity that the rich take for granted and the poor need badly to have a chance to better themselves. It isn't federal "regulation and interference" we want other than to curtail the injustices that we all know unbridled capitalism can and does bring.
All of us only WISH free enterprise worked all on its own without a democratic government to somewhat manage what needs managing, and only the fool doesn't recognize the scope of all that entails, from our natural resources to Wall Street.
Call it what you will, but at least try not to blatantly misrepresent me or those who don't agree with you. Better we stick to the truths of these matters rather than unsubstantiated claims and propaganda. Surely we can all at least agree on that!
While some of you are calculating how costly single payer would be, please remember that some kind of government is already paying for healthcare. Between VA, military, Medicare, Medicaid, CHIPS, all the states and local government employees is a lot of people insured by government. Throw in business subsidized insurance for employees and we are talking about 60% already covered. Bernie's idea will not cost that much extra.
Having DH retire 1992, the way things are going with the market, we are not low income yet. But if the market, oil and interest rates do not recover some, it is something on our radar.
That said, we would gladly pay more taxes for single payer health care for all.
We can fix our problems without Bernie's "revolution".
Nope. Bernie's revolution which he always says is to increase democracy/turnout/popular involvement in the political process and get big money out of politics.
The Republicans already give the trophies to major corporations and uber wealthy donors. But they stay hush-hush about it and try to get the lemmings to attack each other over welfare queens, to avoid focus on the corporate welfare that they are getting.
Wasn't it Obama who did all the bailouts at taxpayer expense?
It is always very frustrating to see how people will misrepresent the thoughts and words of others, but here we go again...
I didn't write "equal footing."
This compulsion on the part of conservatives to take everything to extreme is in large part why we can't find more moderate ground on which we are far more likely to agree.
If you are a Sanders supporter you've already taken things to the extreme. There is nothing "moderate" about Sanders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe;42948791[B
]For example, it is not a progressive goal that everyone "be equal" as conservatives always love to suggest[/b], ridiculous though this always sounds no matter who you are. The goal is simply to provide better access to the building blocks of opportunity that the rich take for granted and the poor need badly to have a chance to better themselves. It isn't federal "regulation and interference" we want other than to curtail the injustices that we all know unbridled capitalism can and does bring.
Did you just say that with a straight face? The Left is CONSTANTLY banging pots and pans about 'equality this' and 'injustice that'. Not that there's anything wrong with basic equality, but the Left is incessantly looking for someone to demonize under the umbrella of equality and "injustice". History never actually progresses in the minds of Progressives. It's always Birmingham, 1961. The clock never moves forward.
It isn't Conservatives who are stuck in the past, it's Progressives who are stuck in the past.
Nope. Bernie's revolution which he always says is to increase democracy/turnout/popular involvement in the political process and get big money out of politics.
You wont fix our problems by not doing that.
We should get big money out of politics... but we don't need an aging Marxist leading the way. He's a relic of Moscow, 1917. Time to move forward.
He would not get 90% of what he wanted, but he might reverse the very dangerous trend toward wealth and influence concentration that we have seen over the last few decades. (I don't support Bernie just yet, but I am starting to lean).
Stop where you are. I have lived long enough to know that these are foolish ideas. If the wealthy or corporations or whatever are taxed more they will just pass the cost of doing business on down to the consumer. That would be me and you. Or, they will flee the country. Either way, we end up holding the bag. The rest of the wealthy that stay here will become even more corrupt and entwined with politicians and it will suck greatly. Go Cruz!
If you are a Sanders supporter you've already taken things to the extreme. There is nothing "moderate" about Sanders.
Did you just say that with a straight face? The Left is CONSTANTLY banging pots and pans about 'equality this' and 'injustice that'. Not that there's anything wrong with basic equality, but the Left is incessantly looking for someone to demonize under the umbrella of equality and "injustice". History never actually progresses in the minds of Progressives. It's always Birmingham, 1961. The clock never moves forward.
It isn't Conservatives who are stuck in the past, it's Progressives who are stuck in the past.
What Sanders is arguing is nothing radical or new for anyone who has been paying attention to politics in America for some time now, and I say that with the same straight face as all of us who know better.
Similarly, you double down on your misrepresentation of what you don't understand by raising that "equality" nonsense again. What you need to do, if you want to be taken seriously, is QUOTE VERBATIM any leader of progressive ideas and values.
Then -- and only then -- if you can with straight face suggest that progressives believe all Americans should be equal or that is the goal, then you've truly got comprehension problems that I surely can't help you with.
"Socialist" is just a label. Heck, Bernie could have called himself a capitalist and no one would think anything of it. Bernie is opposed to government ownership of means of production, which is what real socialism is. Bernie, however, supports shared benefits administration (i.e. healthcare, paid family leave, free college tuition). It's a little socialism, but it's not full fledged socialism.
Besides, former presidents such as FDR, Eisenhower and LBJ were all similar to Bernie. It'll be fine.
A perma-class of intractibly underemployed, for over half a century. Because would-be employers can't pay for all of the taxes and filler and overhead and packaging of employees that come shipped with their own storybooks.
The unemployment situation in France is horrific, has been years. French come into the U.S. on student visas and drive cabs and steal your cheap quiet apts. because there's no work in their home country because taxes and regs. needed to support all the goodies like the ones you want make their sorry presences unacceptably costly.
Eisenhower warned agains the military industrial complex--while the progressive left wants high taxes to shore up Big Government that doles out crony capital to it.
Last edited by mm4; 02-09-2016 at 06:23 PM..
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Not exactly...
