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Not really. He spoke the truth. If abortion is a crime, and murder, then the woman getting it should be punished. He had to quickly backtrack to get on track with the pro-life hypocrites who don't want to charge the woman.
I can't disagree with Trump's logic as far as it goes, but even he's not being totally logical. If abortion is a crime, then the woman who gets one, the doctor who performs it, and the anyone else who facilitates it as in knowing about it and not preventing it, paying for it, making arrangements, etc are all guilty of participating in that crime.
If 4 guys plan a bank heist but only 1 guy actually goes into the bank to take the money, that doesn't mean the guy who "cases" the bank, the guy who disconnects the security cameras/alarms, and the guy who drives the get away car aren't charged, too.
The abortion opponents don't want to charge anybody but the doctor because he/she makes a convenient impersonal target, so being opposed to abortion remains an abstract idea. Making the woman, her lover/husband, and/or her relatives/friends all responsible makes it very, very personal ... "there but for the grace of God ..."
Not really. He spoke the truth. If abortion is a crime, and murder, then the woman getting it should be punished. He had to quickly backtrack to get on track with the pro-life hypocrites who don't want to charge the woman.
There's no way to know that, I don't believe that, so it's a moot point that you're trying to make.
ALL citizens have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Allowing big fed government in was NEVER how the country was supposed to be run. The pursuit of life, liberty and happiness. As a woman, that means that I do not have to risk my health and life for a fetus against my will, a fetus that isn't even considered a citizen BTW. Liberty.....not being made a slave to a fetus against my will and happiness, the freedom to have autonomy over my own body. That's the way I see it, so your point is moot.
What little faith you have in the people of this country. If the people of the state vote that it should be legal, then that's what it should be. It's funny that you carry on about the rights of ALL, but you don't seem to extend that to unborn children. And they are children. Ever notice how when someone is expecting, they have "baby showers", they talk about their baby, they talk about the gender, etc? No one throw a "fetus party" or a "clump of cells shower". Guess what, I often refer to my dog and cats as my babies, many people do. That doesn't mean it is literal and I can claim them on my income taxes as dependents. Guess what else you can't claim on your income taxes......fetuses.....because they are not babies, they are not children, they are not citizens.
Some Republicans are trying to do that, the fact that you think it's going to pass is ridiculous. Don't worry, you all still have the right to kill an innocent unborn child. Trying to do that? They are doing it. One of the worst offenders, John Kasich.
And there are exceptions that would allow "legal" abortions. Example: Mother dies, or child dies...which one do you choose? In that case, then yes, there should be an exception. In other words, women who do not want to carry a pregnancy will once again have to resort to unsafe, illegal abortions, just like they did in the "good ole days". Just like they do in backward, third world countries.
One of the biggest lies out there about this whole issue. Per Planned Parenthood, the abortion people's favorite organization, it costs between $300-1700. The higher price tag is for those who are in second trimester.
Source: Facts About Abortion: U.S. Abortion Statistics
Go ahead and take a look at that page for more facts about who, exactly, is getting the most abortions. Most of them were in the state of CA. There's no short supply for them to find a place:
Hasn't it dawned on you that a woman living on minimum wage might find it impossible to travel to another state and miss days of work to reach an abortion facility? In fact, in many low wage jobs, if you miss work, you get fired. There may not be vacation or sick days. There is no excuse for that. Can you imagine the outrage if a man had to travel to another state to buy a gun because of subversive gun shop regulations? Does that put it in perspective for you?
The argument that it's a "rich vs poor" issue is utter horse puckey.
No it isn't. When abortions were illegal, women of means didn't get abortions under dirty, unsanitary conditions at the hands of the untrained. That was poor women. Rich women, or those with rich baby daddy's, could afford to travel to and/or pay off a licensed physician to preform a "D&C". The same would be true if abortion was made illegal today, women of means could afford good care, poor women would have to settle for whatever they could get. Rich vs Poor. And of course, today, RU486 would become a very lucrative black market drug. Instead of getting it from a trusted doctor, women will get it from some drug dealer.
Hysterics, and nothing more. It protects doctors from "wrongful birth" lawsuits. Essentially, you think it's okay to abort something that isn't "perfect". How nice. Had you read further: It is nothing of the kind. The bill protects doctors who lie to women about the health of the fetus with the intention of preventing a woman from choosing to abort a deformed fetus. Isn't a woman entitled to know that she is going to deliver a deformed fetus, one that may only live a few painful hours or days? The woman may believe that is cruel. Once again, women deserve the truth from their doctors, just as men do. We are not lesser than.
Protecting the right of unborn children...I see nothing wrong with that. Fetuses are not children. If they were, they would be considered citizens, they aren't. You could list them as dependents, you can't. Fathers would have to pay child support for them. They don't. And they certainly don't have rights that trump those of a woman.
Democrats war on children...damn right there is. No point in denying it, there is PLENTY of proof, all in the form of proposed or passed rulings. The murder of innocent unborn children is NOT a problem for liberals. OWN it.
War on Children.....you mean because we want children to have parents who actually wanted them, planned for them, love them? Yea, how awful.
What proposed or past rulings? You mean the social programs for poor children Republicans are always whining about, always trying to cut? You mean programs like wanting to feed children healthy food in school? Yea, as a Democrat, I have no problem OWNING IT.
I don't approve. I'm calling out the hypocrisy of the pro-life "abortion is murder" crowd.
Absolutely. They should be out in force defending Trump's original statement. They have been running around demanding a ban on abortions but have never had a plan how to move forward. If abortion is murder, who is the murderer and what is to be done to them?
If Republicans have their way, the day will come when women who miscarry must prove in a court of law that they did nothing wrong that could have possibly brought it on. Count on it.
^^^
IUD's and birth control pills that prevent implantation will outlawed too, with criminal penalties for those who use them.
But only in some states of course. So women will have to smuggle their birth control meds across state borders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d
I can't disagree with Trump's logic as far as it goes, but even he's not being totally logical. If abortion is a crime, then the woman who gets one, the doctor who performs it, and the anyone else who facilitates it as in knowing about it and not preventing it, paying for it, making arrangements, etc are all guilty of participating in that crime.
What penalty would he favor for a woman who legally obtains a birth control prescription, one that prevents implantation of a fertilized egg, in one state and then travels to another state for a week? Would that same penalty apply to her doctor, pharmacist, and husband/lover back in the original state? Or would you just be in favor of that woman being tried and convicted for a crime in the state she's visiting?
What penalty would he favor for a woman who legally obtains a birth control prescription, one that prevents implantation of a fertilized egg, in one state and then travels to another state for a week? Would that same penalty apply to her doctor, pharmacist, and husband/lover back in the original state? Or would you just be in favor of that woman being tried and convicted for a crime in the state she's visiting?
I think you misunderstood my point ... or maybe I misunderstood yours.
I'm pro-choice. I was pointing out, as katzpaw did, that Trump is logically correct, and that the anti-choice crowd is being hypocritical for the very real reason that being honest about the ramifications of criminalizing abortions would turn many supporters of making it illegal into opponents.
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