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Old 06-05-2008, 02:37 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,662 posts, read 3,829,725 times
Reputation: 580

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Spent a few minutes looking into some of the specific Obama "change" that we can look forward to discussing:

- he co-sponsored a bill to prevent any type of photo ID during voting

- As an Illinois senator he was the only one to vote against a bill to prevent early release for criminal sexual offenders.

- he voted against filtering pornography on school and library computers

- in 2001 he voted "present" on a bill to prevent porn stores within 1000 ft of schools and churches.

- Obama has twice voted against bills that would prohibit our tax dollars be used for abortions

- he is against a bill giving live birth children the right to life; in fact he will not let this bill come up for discussion

- in 2001 he voted "present" on a bill to notify parents when minors seek an abortion

- he voted "present" 130 times as an Illinois senator - a gutless move to prevent going on record or taking a position such as a bill to allow some juveniles to be tried as adults. (Those 15 to 17 y.o. that were caught using a firearm to commit a crime on or near school grounds. A pro vote would have angered his African-American constituents; a no vote the rest of the state. Obama's leadership on the issue was to run and hide.)

- On 36 of these "present" votes he was either the only one or one of less than six to use this weaseling form of avoidance.

- The Illinois house voted 112-0-0; the senate 58-0-1(present vote) on a bill that would allow certain victims of sexual crimes to petition judges to seal court records relating to their cases. Guess who couldn't take a stand?

- In 2000 Obama was one of only 2 senators to vote "present" on a bill on whether facts not presented to a jury could later be the basis for increasing an offender's sentence beyond the ordinary maximum.

- Obama was also the sole "present" vote on a bill that easily passed the Senate that requiring teaching respect for others in schools.


The list will grow but gives an insight into this "change" we can hope for.
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Old 06-05-2008, 02:40 PM
 
Location: San Antonio North
4,147 posts, read 8,004,293 times
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SO can a diehard Obama supporter explain all the "present" votes.


Im really curious to see what you guys think since it is impossible for him to do wrong how do you justify these votes?
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Old 06-05-2008, 02:42 PM
 
Location: NJ/NY
10,655 posts, read 18,668,752 times
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I agree with him 100% on all of the abortion votes.
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Old 06-05-2008, 02:43 PM
 
Location: San Antonio North
4,147 posts, read 8,004,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newtoli View Post
I agree with him 100% on all of the abortion votes.
Some he only voted present for. How can one agree on a non stance?
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Old 06-05-2008, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Wilmington, NC
8,577 posts, read 7,854,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newtoli View Post
I agree with him 100% on all of the abortion votes.
you agree with not giving rights to babies that survive late term abortions?
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Old 06-05-2008, 02:45 PM
 
3,695 posts, read 11,375,333 times
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Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In |

On voting "present" instead of yes or no
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Old 06-05-2008, 02:45 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,662 posts, read 3,829,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newtoli View Post
I agree with him 100% on all of the abortion votes.
Regardless on one's position of choice/life, I'm confident that the majority of Americans find the killing of a healthy new born baby, due to nothing other than the mother's desire, reprehensible.
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Old 06-05-2008, 02:49 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,662 posts, read 3,829,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean98125 View Post
Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In |

On voting "present" instead of yes or no
It's good to see him explain his form of "leadership." Even Kerry voted yes before he voted no. Obama doesn't do either; just ducks. Quack.
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Old 06-05-2008, 02:49 PM
 
Location: NJ/NY
10,655 posts, read 18,668,752 times
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Detailed answers below:

- he co-sponsored a bill to prevent any type of photo ID during voting
Don't agree with this one.

- As an Illinois senator he was the only one to vote against a bill to prevent early release for criminal sexual offenders.
Let's define sexual offenders here. What level sexual offender are we talking about? Are we talking about child rapists or someone who was 19 and had sex with his 17 year old girlfriend?

- he voted against filtering pornography on school and library computers
I am familiar with this law, pornography was broad enough to include health sites discussing breasts.

- in 2001 he voted "present" on a bill to prevent porn stores within 1000 ft of schools and churches.
This bill could effectively limit there being a porn store in a town. Why should a store that sells pornography be held to a different standard than a regular store?

- Obama has twice voted against bills that would prohibit our tax dollars be used for abortions
If medicaid will pay for births and healthcare for the child, why not elective abortions? It cheaper in the long run if you're concerned about tax dollars

- he is against a bill giving live birth children the right to life; in fact he will not let this bill come up for discussion
Elective Abortions can be legally performed up to 24 weeks. The chance of this happening is incredibly slight. It is the woman's choice as to what happens regarding providing medical supportive care to the fetus. The government should not be involved in this.

- in 2001 he voted "present" on a bill to notify parents when minors seek an abortion
All parental notification does is increase the number of late term abortions, and teens trying to self abort. Totally agree with this.

- he voted "present" 130 times as an Illinois senator - a gutless move to prevent going on record or taking a position such as a bill to allow some juveniles to be tried as adults. (Those 15 to 17 y.o. that were caught using a firearm to commit a crime on or near school grounds. A pro vote would have angered his African-American constituents; a no vote the rest of the state. Obama's leadership on the issue was to run and hide.)
Show the the votes and bills, this is a general statement rather than relating to specific bills

- On 36 of these "present" votes he was either the only one or one of less than six to use this weaseling form of avoidance.
Which votes? How often is "Present" used by other senators?

- The Illinois house voted 112-0-0; the senate 58-0-1(present vote) on a bill that would allow certain victims of sexual crimes to petition judges to seal court records relating to their cases. Guess who couldn't take a stand?
What bill was this, I'd like to see the details.

- In 2000 Obama was one of only 2 senators to vote "present" on a bill on whether facts not presented to a jury could later be the basis for increasing an offender's sentence beyond the ordinary maximum.
What does "facts presented to a jury" mean? How is that different from a regular case?

- Obama was also the sole "present" vote on a bill that easily passed the Senate that requiring teaching respect for others in schools.
Require schools to teach respect? A class? This is not something that should be Government mandated.
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Old 06-05-2008, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Orlando, FL
12,200 posts, read 18,382,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LNTT_Vacationer View Post
Regardless on one's position of choice/life, I'm confident that the majority of Americans find the killing of a healthy new born baby, due to nothing other than the mother's desire, reprehensible.
Are the babies healthy? I've been trying to find a link on this and I can't; I keep getting blog sites. I would think that a partial abortion would have some affect on them.

Can someone post something?
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