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It amazes me how many people attack someone who does not blindly follow along with the party nomination.
There are many people out here who don't agree with either party 100% - hence so many independents. I've been registered Republican for many years, but I'm not excited about McCain, and would have seriously given Hillary some thought if she had won.
Obama and Hillary may be very close on the issues, but she has the experience that her husbnad gained by being more sucessful working in a bi-partisan way, and moving more toward the middle. Obama will not do that I don't think. So, frankly they are not the same. Not everyone agrees with whatever party they are in 100% you know. Sometimes character and leadership are very important.
It isn't so much that we are attacking her for not holding the 'party line'. I generally identify as a Democrat, but I have voted Green, Independent, and Republican in the past in local elections (and had very specific policy orientated reasons for doing so, ask me about my Republican vote for cook county board president sometime, if you are very bored and want to read a rant that would probably go on for pages). However, I (and others) have asked this poster directly what, as one who identifies herself as a Democrat, what about McCain's political, economic, and social policies she prefers over Obama's and the Democratic platform (that Hillary supports), she has yet to answer, leading me,and many others to believe that hers is a vote out of spite, and not out of any sort of reasoned consideration of the the social, economic, and political policies of either candidate. Because, quite frankly, there is little about McCain's current stated policies (on all three fronts) that are much in line with the stated Democratic platform or the policies that Hillary Clinton espoused when she was running for office (many of which I was behind).
Man, she hit the ball right out of the park.... like her or not, she did FABULOUS tonight!
Yeah.. she was amazing..
I was voting for Barack anyway.. because god forbid we have 8 more years of Bush nonsense.. and that's all you'll get with McCain..
I think Barack is great.... although Hillary would have been better..
BUT. .. seeing her last night I understood why he didn't choose her as his VP nominee.. it was the moment where the wives were together with Biden watching.. and I realized that with a former President as the spouse of the sitting VP.. and the popularity of Hillary here and worldwide.. the VP would overshadow the president..
Lets hope that Hillary will make a run for it in 8 years from now (because if Barack wins and does a good job as we all hope, he'll be a 2 term president)
[quote=TheRealAngelion;5014987]Lady please. You are no Democrat. You are simply posing as one to promote your pro McCain, pro Republican garbage. If you walk like a Republican, talk like a Republican and act like a Republican. You are a Republican.[/quote
I love the people that are just so sure if a democrat does not vote for Obama then they have to be a republican.
There are plenty of us voting for Mccain, just like there were plenty that voted for Regan. I frankly do not care what you think.
So yammer on.
I have voted democrat since McGovern, but not this year.
It is people like you that harms the process, you want freedom, as long as it is for Obama, but if we decide to vote for someone else then we get blasted.
Yet you refuse to tell us why you are voting for McCain, I simply would like to know how it is, as a self identified Democrat, that McCain speaks to your social, political, and economic values moreso than obama. Why is it that you refuse to tell us?
Yet you refuse to tell us why you are voting for McCain, I simply would like to know how it is, as a self identified Democrat, that McCain speaks to your social, political, and economic values moreso than obama. Why is it that you refuse to tell us?
I would like to know why anyone would vote for a socialist like Barack.
1. McCain served our country in the military, not Barack.
2. McCain has had years of experience, Barack was a "community organizer" and has served two years in the senate, half of which he has been running for president.
3. McCain and wife actually loves this country, Barack sits on a board with someone who bombed our Pentagon, his pastor says G** D*** America, and his wife says this is a downright mean country.
4. McCain believes if a child survives an abortion the child should be cared for, Barack was the only senator to vote against that.
That is just the beginning, I have no doubt Barack will bring change, but change from what to what. I dont think anyone should vote for someone who promises change and not even know what will be changed.
1. Alot of "Americas problems" that she mentioned (Healthcare. rising bills, foreclosures et al) All have zero to do with the Federal government. By mentioning them, she is subtly trying to socialize everyones PERSONAL problems.
2. She brings up again (like every democrat it seems) Women all over the US bieng paid less than men. First off--the goal of every Business in the US is to make money. If these companies could get away with paying women less than men,(Hillary and the dems seem to think its a huge epidemic after all) what company in thier right mind would hire a man????
3. I was particulary incensed when she was giving her whole "WE KEEP ON GOING!!! WE NEVER GIVE UP" BS--I guess she forgot about Somalia.
I would like to know why anyone would vote for a socialist like Barack.
1. McCain served our country in the military, not Barack.
2. McCain has had years of experience, Barack was a "community organizer" and has served two years in the senate, half of which he has been running for president.
3. McCain and wife actually loves this country, Barack sits on a board with someone who bombed our Pentagon, his pastor says G** D*** America, and his wife says this is a downright mean country.
4. McCain believes if a child survives an abortion the child should be cared for, Barack was the only senator to vote against that.
That is just the beginning, I have no doubt Barack will bring change, but change from what to what. I dont think anyone should vote for someone who promises change and not even know what will be changed.
Rather than getting into debating every one of these points (which are fairly ridiculous), I'll try to clarify what I think j33 was saying:
IF someone supported/supports HILLARY, or is a self-identified Democrat, why would that person support John McCain over Barack Obama?
would like to know why anyone would vote for a socialist like Barack.
1. McCain served our country in the military, not Barack.
Since when was it a requirement that someone serves in the military to become president. There is nothing in the act of serving in the military or not serving in the military that makes one a better or worse president.
2. McCain has had years of experience, Barack was a "community organizer" and has served two years in the senate, half of which he has been running for president.
Barack served in the Illinois government for quite awhile before serving as a DC senator, it isn't as if he just sprung out of nowhere as so many like to assert. That you do not know what a community organizer is says more about your lack of knowledge than anything. I've known more than one person who served for brief periods of their lives as community organizers before moving onto better things. It is an actual job, and often not an easy one.
3. McCain and wife actually loves this country, Barack sits on a board with someone who bombed our Pentagon, his pastor says G** D*** America, and his wife says this is a downright mean country.
You know nothing of the foundation in which Obama and Ayers both served (Woods Fund of Chicago,), this foundation's board has also included several other prominent local business men and women, not just Obama and Ayers. As far as the paster issue, Hagee has just endorsed McCain, he's not much of a treat either. Michelle is correct, there are some aspects of political discourse in the US that are mean, your dishonest post in which you rehash (poorly) every false taking point the right has thrown at Obama is a very good example of such meanness
4. McCain believes if a child survives an abortion the child should be cared for, Barack was the only senator to vote against that.
While I am also against last-term abortion, this is not so cut and dry as you would have us believe. I will not rehash the pages of research that has been presented on this very board that explains such.
That is just the beginning, I have no doubt Barack will bring change, but change from what to what. I dont think anyone should vote for someone who promises change and not even know what will be changed.:eek
This is the oldest and weakest argument in the book, if you can't figure out what Obama stands for, that is your problem, as you obviously have no abilities whatsoever to 1. Look at his website 2. Look at the myriad of articles, editorials, critiques, etc. that have been published in the Washington Post, NYTimes, or, if you lean more conservative, actual conservative critiques of his stated policies. To state you don't know what they are just makes you look willfully ignorant. I know what McCain stands for because I know how to read, and have read his website, his stated policies, etc. I just don't like them.
Rather than getting into debating every one of these points (which are fairly ridiculous), I'll try to clarify what I think j33 was saying:
IF someone supported/supports HILLARY, or is a self-identified Democrat, why would that person support John McCain over Barack Obama?
Excellent post..
You know.. I was never a demo or a repub.. but as I get older I find myself identifying more with one party than the other.. and that is democrats.. I got busy, so wasn't able to register as a democrat before this primary.. but I WILL become a registered democrat...
While Imay not agree with EVERY aspect of policies on the democratic side.. I realy find myself not really able to agree or identify with Republican party at all.. which are all about tax breaks for the rich. policies that benefit the bottom line of big corporations at the expense of the people of this country, war war war and more war.. need I go on! There is so much differenc ebetween the two parties, that if you find yourself identifying with a candidate from one party more tan the other.welll then you are identifying with that parties beliefs.. and anyone democrat who says they are democrat and votes for McCain never realyl was a democrat to begin with.. how could you be when there is such a sharp contrast.
8 years of Bush and Republican policies have put tihs country in a mess.. as I remember it.. The Clinton years were great!!
And Hillary was the first choice for me for that.. but Barack is certainly far better at turning this country around than McCain is..
And all those who say that Barack doesn't have the experience.. well neither did Bush!! As a matter of fact, I can't remember where, but I remember reading what Reagan's opinino was of the First Bush's son at th etime of his presidency..
Barack is a smart man.. one who knows where he is lacking and will be sure to surround himself with those that will advice him in areas where he diesn't have the most experience..
Isn't that what the presidential cabinet is for!!! After all...
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and has served two years in the senate, half of which he has been running for president.
